Christian Wolmar - Trend Back To Barriers Is Damaging The Customer Experience

[whole diary]

[zebedee]

I guess that's cool then!  Oh, and I don't envy any of the train staff who have to deal with those trains coming into Newton Abbot that carry the hordes of school children - they are a mob unto themselves.  I tried to get off one of those trains once and was literally pushed back into the train by the tide of teenagers....

Actually, I am pretty shocked to hear that many of them don't have tickets - not sure how any self respecting parent could send their children on trains without ensuring they have a ticket....but I guess that's the point, many of the parents are not self respecting!

[devonian]

No way to gates at Newton Abbot!  It's bad enough, as a passenger, trying to get through the gates at St. David's in the morning - people just get confused and then the staff have to get involved, which just blocks the (narrow) entrance way up.  It's not the staff, it's the dummies who don't have their tickets ready or who just don't understand what they have to do or (and this really annoys me), decide that now THEY have got through the barriers they are going to just stop to put their ticket away or sort their bags out.

From a regular commuters perspective, I think they are nothing but a pain.  If fares were reduced in cost because they had cut down on the amount of people riding the trains without paying, then I would welcome them.

Sounds like we do the same commute.

I'm all for ticket barriers if they catch the cheats trying to wangle their way out of a fare when everyone else has paid.

I do get highly annoyed though when one of the two exit gates at St Davids is blocked by an "assistant". This morning the train 0803 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) from NA was one of the busiest I have seen it and at St Davids one exit gate was blocked by an assistant - the queue was to the stairs. It would be fine if they stood so that people could get past. It can be done!

[devon_metro]

Actually, I am pretty shocked to hear that many of them don't have tickets - not sure how any self respecting parent could send their children on trains without ensuring they have a ticket....but I guess that's the point, many of the parents are not self respecting!

Have you seen some of the scum that lives in Torbay!!!

[Btline]

They need gates at Worcester's stations.

On my peak trains in and out of Worcester, the guards (Central Trains/London Midland) NEVER (well hardly ever) check tickets as the train is so crowded.

They also think that everyone has a train pass (many do- lots of school children).

However, the locals have cottoned onto this, and fare evaders come on.

Lots of "yobs" (if I allowed to use this term) hide in the toilets and smoke - some some in the carriages! none have tickets.

If the guard comes, they just buy standard cheap tickets (the guard does not know where they got on).

Going back to the children- many just carry a pass photo-card and a pass from years ago - if they check, the guards just see a wallet, and move on.

So barriers are needed- get yobs off our trains!

[vacman]

They need gates at Worcester's stations.

On my peak trains in and out of Worcester, the guards (Central Trains/London Midland) NEVER (well hardly ever) check tickets as the train is so crowded.

They also think that everyone has a train pass (many do- lots of school children).

However, the locals have cottoned onto this, and fare evaders come on.

Lots of "yobs" (if I allowed to use this term) hide in the toilets and smoke - some some in the carriages! none have tickets.

If the guard comes, they just buy standard cheap tickets (the guard does not know where they got on).

Going back to the children- many just carry a pass photo-card and a pass from years ago - if they check, the guards just see a wallet, and move on.

So barriers are needed- get yobs off our trains!

Both of Worcesters stations are managed by London Midland so no danger of any gates there! LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) are subsidised so they don't care about revenue.

[Btline]

They need gates at Worcester's stations.

On my peak trains in and out of Worcester, the guards (Central Trains/London Midland) NEVER (well hardly ever) check tickets as the train is so crowded.

They also think that everyone has a train pass (many do- lots of school children).

However, the locals have cottoned onto this, and fare evaders come on.

Lots of "yobs" (if I allowed to use this term) hide in the toilets and smoke - some some in the carriages! none have tickets.

If the guard comes, they just buy standard cheap tickets (the guard does not know where they got on).

Going back to the children- many just carry a pass photo-card and a pass from years ago - if they check, the guards just see a wallet, and move on.

So barriers are needed- get yobs off our trains!

Both of Worcesters stations are managed by London Midland so no danger of any gates there! LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) are subsidised so they don't care about revenue.

True- I forgot that LM run them!

But they are needed!

[smokey]

Barriers were unstaffed at 1620 yesterday at Plymouth

Poor show really.

Plymouth is a joke, a certain SDM at plymouth who used to be Devon station manager under Wessex has instructed staff to open up all the gates when it's busy!! surely defeating the object of the gates??

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) must read these posts went through Plymouth barriers today a couple of times, even when peak hour trains came in the Barriers were in USE.

[zebedee]

No way to gates at Newton Abbot!  It's bad enough, as a passenger, trying to get through the gates at St. David's in the morning - people just get confused and then the staff have to get involved, which just blocks the (narrow) entrance way up.  It's not the staff, it's the dummies who don't have their tickets ready or who just don't understand what they have to do or (and this really annoys me), decide that now THEY have got through the barriers they are going to just stop to put their ticket away or sort their bags out.

From a regular commuters perspective, I think they are nothing but a pain.  If fares were reduced in cost because they had cut down on the amount of people riding the trains without paying, then I would welcome them.

Sounds like we do the same commute.

I'm all for ticket barriers if they catch the cheats trying to wangle their way out of a fare when everyone else has paid.

I do get highly annoyed though when one of the two exit gates at St Davids is blocked by an "assistant". This morning the train 0803 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) from NA was one of the busiest I have seen it and at St Davids one exit gate was blocked by an assistant - the queue was to the stairs. It would be fine if they stood so that people could get past. It can be done!

Indeed it does!  Yes, the 0803 XC was very busy this morning and I ended up standing - figured it was easier than trying to find a seat.  It especially annoys me that there is a much larger FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) that goes just after and then stops at every station and probably doesn't even get 25% full....

I am considering giving up on the 0803 and going in a bit earlier and then coming home on the 1612 or the 1619 everyday instead, as they are generally more on time than the 1733.

[Tim]

They need gates at Worcester's stations.

On my peak trains in and out of Worcester, the guards (Central Trains/London Midland) NEVER (well hardly ever) check tickets as the train is so crowded.

They also think that everyone has a train pass (many do- lots of school children).

However, the locals have cottoned onto this, and fare evaders come on.

Lots of "yobs" (if I allowed to use this term) hide in the toilets and smoke - some some in the carriages! none have tickets.

If the guard comes, they just buy standard cheap tickets (the guard does not know where they got on).

Going back to the children- many just carry a pass photo-card and a pass from years ago - if they check, the guards just see a wallet, and move on.

So barriers are needed- get yobs off our trains!

Both of Worcesters stations are managed by London Midland so no danger of any gates there! LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) are subsidised so they don't care about revenue.

I also get the impression that subsidised franchises are less concerned about revenue but I don't understand why.  If I dodge a ^10 fare on LM, their shareholders loose ^10.  If I dodge the same fare on FGW^▸ (First Great Western), their shareholders loose ^10.  If I was a shareholder why wouldn't I be equally concerned about both loses?  I suspect that FGW is more worried about revenue than LM and Wesex (was) simply because their fares are usually higher

[vacman]

With a subsidised franchise then the company gets massive handouts from the government to run the service so they make profits no matter what, with a premium franchise then the only source of income is from the fare box and possibly buffet sales. It is interesting that Arriva Trains Wales is subsidised but they have also installed ticket gates at loads of stations.

[BandHcommuter]

A lost fare due to ticketless travel will come straight off the train company's bottom line, regardless of the subsidy/premium situation. The only exceptions are those cases where revenue risk is shared or transferred to the sponsoring authority. This happens, I believe, in certain PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive) areas. Even then, there is usually an incentive regime to encourage the operator to collect the fares.

I would imagine that there is a strong financial case for gateline installation, although I agree that they need to sort out the ticket formats and do a bit more customer education to smoothen the operation.

We are also told that gates are positive for passenger security. I'm not sure about this - the trouble seems to happen late evenings when gatelines are not operating. Perhaps the customer-facing rail staff on the forum could give a view on this?

[vacman]

A lost fare due to ticketless travel will come straight off the train company's bottom line, regardless of the subsidy/premium situation. The only exceptions are those cases where revenue risk is shared or transferred to the sponsoring authority. This happens, I believe, in certain PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive) areas. Even then, there is usually an incentive regime to encourage the operator to collect the fares.

I would imagine that there is a strong financial case for gateline installation, although I agree that they need to sort out the ticket formats and do a bit more customer education to smoothen the operation.

We are also told that gates are positive for passenger security. I'm not sure about this - the trouble seems to happen late evenings when gatelines are not operating. Perhaps the customer-facing rail staff on the forum could give a view on this?

I agree there, gatelines are usually not in operation in the evening, Plymouth and Exeter are SUPPOSED to be manned until 2100 each evening, don't think i've seen them on after about 1800!

[devon_metro]

No way to gates at Newton Abbot!  It's bad enough, as a passenger, trying to get through the gates at St. David's in the morning - people just get confused and then the staff have to get involved, which just blocks the (narrow) entrance way up.  It's not the staff, it's the dummies who don't have their tickets ready or who just don't understand what they have to do or (and this really annoys me), decide that now THEY have got through the barriers they are going to just stop to put their ticket away or sort their bags out.

From a regular commuters perspective, I think they are nothing but a pain.  If fares were reduced in cost because they had cut down on the amount of people riding the trains without paying, then I would welcome them.

Sounds like we do the same commute.

I'm all for ticket barriers if they catch the cheats trying to wangle their way out of a fare when everyone else has paid.

I do get highly annoyed though when one of the two exit gates at St Davids is blocked by an "assistant". This morning the train 0803 XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) from NA was one of the busiest I have seen it and at St Davids one exit gate was blocked by an assistant - the queue was to the stairs. It would be fine if they stood so that people could get past. It can be done!

Indeed it does!  Yes, the 0803 XC was very busy this morning and I ended up standing - figured it was easier than trying to find a seat.  It especially annoys me that there is a much larger FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) that goes just after and then stops at every station and probably doesn't even get 25% full....

I am considering giving up on the 0803 and going in a bit earlier and then coming home on the 1612 or the 1619 everyday instead, as they are generally more on time than the 1733.

1619 left on time today. Arrived into exeter with 4 minutes to spare before departure. In the morning before the 0803, your options are the 0730 to London (The Golden Hind) which will probably have a few spare seats as it is an HST.

[Lee]

A couple of article links for your interest.
http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=231771&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231774&contentPK=19577477&folderPk=108867&pNodeId=231888

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=231771&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231774&contentPK=19635052&folderPk=108867&pNodeId=231888

[gaf71]

A lost fare due to ticketless travel will come straight off the train company's bottom line, regardless of the subsidy/premium situation. The only exceptions are those cases where revenue risk is shared or transferred to the sponsoring authority. This happens, I believe, in certain PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive) areas. Even then, there is usually an incentive regime to encourage the operator to collect the fares.

I would imagine that there is a strong financial case for gateline installation, although I agree that they need to sort out the ticket formats and do a bit more customer education to smoothen the operation.

We are also told that gates are positive for passenger security. I'm not sure about this - the trouble seems to happen late evenings when gatelines are not operating. Perhaps the customer-facing rail staff on the forum could give a view on this?

See my earlier post in this this thread