Scrapping British gauge trains in France - madness?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

I'm noting from another forum that SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) are laying up spare Eurostar trains which have been used on domestic runs in France, prior to probable scrapping.  They're very long electric trains ... would seem to be ideal to take over some the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) diagrams on the East Coast which are all under the wires ... allowing a couple more (?) HSTs to come to FGW^▸ (First Great Western), in turn lengthening a handful of Thames Valley trains too.  Or perhaps providing that Bristol - Oxford service; stopped at Keynsham and Oldfield Park, that would provide the extra Bristol Metro West service in that corridor, save the cost of the Bathampton turn back, and provide an enabling service for Corsham.

Why are they looking at scrapping this stock?

[ChrisB]

Aren't rhey run with in-cab signalling?

[ellendune]

I don't think they would be suitable for frequent stopping services. However they might be used to provide more capacity on longer distance services.

[John R]

Ah, must get my GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) Eurostar out and run it round the model railway today.   Used to enjoy seeing those when I lived in Sandy.  Don't think they could work north of York though because of gauging issues and iirc were limited to 110mph for some of the route.  So likely to be a very expensive option with limited uses.  I'd have thought Eurostar would have had first refusal on them, and surprised that they aren't interested as they are showing much more interest in expansion of late.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Don't think they could work north of York though because of gauging issues and iirc were limited to 110mph for some of the route. 

I thought the not-north-of-York was due to signalling (track circuits?) issues.

[eightf48544]

It was also alleged that the pan pressure was higher which led to more O/H line problems when they were running on ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line).

[Electric train]

There are not many HST^▸ (High Speed Train) only services only run under the wires on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line), and why would we want to replace a 40 year old HST with a nearly 30 year old Eurostar when we are getting brand new train sets.

Common guys we getting new train sets why use someone else cast off

[John R]

Common guys we getting new train sets why use someone else cast off

Who are you calling common?

And the Eurostars are exactly 20 years old, so 'nearly 30' is a bit off the mark.

[Rhydgaled]

Is it three-capitals or north-of-London Eurostar sets being stored, or both?

There are not many HST^▸ (High Speed Train) only services only run under the wires on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line), and why would we want to replace a 40 year old HST with a nearly 30 year old Eurostar when we are getting brand new train sets.

Same reason we shouldn't be scrapping the IC225 fleet: it is wasteful to buy expensive new trains for everywhere when there is stock arround with life left in it. If you use the IC225s (and maybe the Eurostar sets as well) there should be plenty of scope to avoid needing to procure any new trains to facilitate introduction of electric traction on the Midland Main Line once it is wired, and hopefully do something about the threat of overcrowding on a newly-electrified GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) with newly-shortened trains.

And the Eurostars are exactly 20 years old, so 'nearly 30' is a bit off the mark.

And the IC225 fleet is only arround 24 years old. Would be insane to scrap either in my opinion. As noted above, the HSTs (IC125s) are 40-odd years old, which means the Eurostar sets have another 20 years service left to give and the IC225s 16. In fact, electrics are supposed to have a longer lifespan than diesels so you could probablly push the class 91 locomotives, mark 4 coaches and class 373 Eurostar units to 45 or 50 years old. That's 2035/40 for IC225 and 2039/44 for the Eurostar fleet.

[eightf48544]

the other thing mentioned in today's Railways europe which has a picture of set being towed to PAris is tha have not been refurbished and are very tatty.

[JayMac]

Maybe Eurostar/Keolis(SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways)) could find a use for them on the East Coast should they win the franchise.

Like others though I find it unlikely. Route availability, non-standard, depot facilities, driver training, all to be overcome at what cost? Is the outlay worth it when there is a firm order of new stock alreading on the way.

[Brusselier]

Eurostar sets only have one door each side on each carriage. That and the lengthy door opening and closing processes would lead to increased dwell times at intermediate stations.

I understand it's power/weight ratio is lower on the "Transmanche Super Train" than other TGV^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse) variations due to their fixed formation 18 carriage length with only two power cars vice four in a double length TGV reseaux. Shortening them may improve this, but whether that would prove cost effective is one for the 'experts'.

If they were introduced on the East Coast route, Im sure the executive compartments in coaches 9 & 10 would prove popular with ministers traveling between London and Edinburgh.

[JayMac]

Except those ministers would only get as far as York unless expensive route clearance work was done.

[Rhydgaled]

Except those ministers would only get as far as York unless expensive route clearance work was done.

Like what's happening anyway to allow 26m carriages you mean? With only 7 North Of London sets (nobody has yet answer my question whether it is those and/or three-capitals) there wouldn't be much point deploying them on more than one or two routes though, so the best use for them would probably be London-Leeds or London-York. Or maybe Swansea/Cardiff or Bristol to/from Paddington?? Of course both those routes will be getting IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), and the shortage of vehicles in the GW^▸ (Great Western) IEP fleet is probably best made up by keeping the IC225s on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) rather than using Eurostar sets.

Or how about using the connection from HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) to the classic lines near St. Pancras for the previously-aborted regional Eurostar services, calling at Stratford International to put meaning into the name, now that HS1 will have reduced the journey time to something more competitive? With the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrficiation, Bristol might become a destination option in future also.

[JayMac]

Customs/Border Control? One reason the intended service never got off the ground. And more likely today to preclude international services beyond London.