Thames Valley infrastructure problems causing disruption elsewhere - 2014

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Blimey that all sounds rather dramatic! What does it take to make a signal fall over?

Glad I came back from Plymouth yesterday! (on the 1510 from Plymouth, which was only 5 minutes late into Reading!!!)  

A total lack of maintenance and abysmal management by Network Rail, yet the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) continue to allow it to happen.  If a train operator performed this badly their franchise would have been stripped by now.

...........I would imagine that a few people at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are looking nervously over their shoulders then judging by recent performance around cancellations/delays/short formations/dangerous overcrowding due to  train faults, staff "not available" etc! 

[a-driver]

Blimey that all sounds rather dramatic! What does it take to make a signal fall over?

Glad I came back from Plymouth yesterday! (on the 1510 from Plymouth, which was only 5 minutes late into Reading!!!)  

A total lack of maintenance and abysmal management by Network Rail, yet the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) continue to allow it to happen.  If a train operator performed this badly their franchise would have been stripped by now.

...........I would imagine that a few people at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are looking nervously over their shoulders then judging by recent performance around cancellations/delays/short formations/dangerous overcrowding due to  train faults, staff "not available" etc! 

I doubt it. FGW are in the same boat as Northern, FTPE^» (First TransPennine Express - website), Anglia, London Midland and one or two others and can easily justify the reason. Not enough trains.
Should a manager leave a position they will easily get another job with another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) or go into consultancy where there is significantly more money.
Whilst passengers continually point the finger of blame at the TOC the DfT the aren't going to take a blind bit of notice.  This afterall, is what they wanted from rail privatisation.  They knew it would cost a fortune to modernise so effectively washed their hands of it only taking an interest in bashing TOCs when a general election is close to win a few extra votes.

[TaplowGreen]

Blimey that all sounds rather dramatic! What does it take to make a signal fall over?

Glad I came back from Plymouth yesterday! (on the 1510 from Plymouth, which was only 5 minutes late into Reading!!!)  

A total lack of maintenance and abysmal management by Network Rail, yet the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) continue to allow it to happen.  If a train operator performed this badly their franchise would have been stripped by now.

...........I would imagine that a few people at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are looking nervously over their shoulders then judging by recent performance around cancellations/delays/short formations/dangerous overcrowding due to  train faults, staff "not available" etc! 

I doubt it. FGW are in the same boat as Northern, FTPE^» (First TransPennine Express - website), Anglia, London Midland and one or two others and can easily justify the reason. Not enough trains.
Should a manager leave a position they will easily get another job with another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) or go into consultancy where there is significantly more money.
Whilst passengers continually point the finger of blame at the TOC the DfT the aren't going to take a blind bit of notice.  This afterall, is what they wanted from rail privatisation.  They knew it would cost a fortune to modernise so effectively washed their hands of it only taking an interest in bashing TOCs when a general election is close to win a few extra votes.

Up to a point, yes, but the constant blaming of DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)/NR^» (Network Rail - home page) etc does come across a bit like Laurel blaming Hardy...........FGW are responsible for maintaining their trains and ensuring that their staff attend work as far as I know, not sure how train failures, pathetic levels of communication, leaving passengers stranded without information for hours, staff unavailability etc can be blamed on other agencies?

Passengers point the finger at the TOC because they pay the TOC a great deal of money to provide a service, and it is with the TOC that they have a contract......the fact that FGWs supply chain/infrastructure partners/contractors have problems of their own is for FGW to address. it is of precisely zero interest to the customer with whom they have a contract........however as they get oodles of cash from Network Rail (NR) in respect of their own failures, with only a tiny proportion being returned to fare paying passengers in compensation is hardly a strong motivation to do so I guess.

The concept of taking it on the jaw when things go wrong and not blaming others is not something which comes easily to the TOCs/Railway industry it seems.

If First Great Western (FGW) were seen to be addressing these issues with Network Rail (NR) (especially the recent signalling farces throughout October) in a robust and highly visible way it would help their case, however Mr Hopwood seems to be doing a good impression of the invisible man.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[Super Guard]

Blimey that all sounds rather dramatic! What does it take to make a signal fall over?

Glad I came back from Plymouth yesterday! (on the 1510 from Plymouth, which was only 5 minutes late into Reading!!!)  

A total lack of maintenance and abysmal management by Network Rail, yet the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) continue to allow it to happen.  If a train operator performed this badly their franchise would have been stripped by now.

...........I would imagine that a few people at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are looking nervously over their shoulders then judging by recent performance around cancellations/delays/short formations/dangerous overcrowding due to  train faults, staff "not available" etc! 

I doubt it. FGW are in the same boat as Northern, FTPE^» (First TransPennine Express - website), Anglia, London Midland and one or two others and can easily justify the reason. Not enough trains.
Should a manager leave a position they will easily get another job with another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) or go into consultancy where there is significantly more money.
Whilst passengers continually point the finger of blame at the TOC the DfT the aren't going to take a blind bit of notice.  This afterall, is what they wanted from rail privatisation.  They knew it would cost a fortune to modernise so effectively washed their hands of it only taking an interest in bashing TOCs when a general election is close to win a few extra votes.

Up to a point, yes, but the constant blaming of DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)/NR^» (Network Rail - home page) etc does come across a bit like Laurel blaming Hardy...........FGW are responsible for maintaining their trains and ensuring that their staff attend work as far as I know, not sure how train failures, pathetic levels of communication, leaving passengers stranded without information for hours, staff unavailability etc can be blamed on other agencies?

 

Surely the only person responsible for ensuring a member of staff attends work is the member of staff themselves?

You make the "staff unavailability" comment on a regular basis every time you get on your anti-FGW soapbox.  Just to reassure you, there are not endless numbers of rail staff who cannot be bothered to attend work.

It could be unavailable due to a simple rostering error, it could be unavailable due to the disruption stranding the staff needed for the specific service (especially if specific traction/route knowledge is required.)  There are normally "cover/standby" staff that can be dispatched at a moments notice to cover late running drivers [of course you wouldn't know this as it's seemless!]...or what about drivers who require a break -- while i'm sure a late service would irritate you if the driver was sat having a cup of tea, surely this is preferable to him being forced to ignore his legal break requirements and have a safety related incident?

At what point do you want ticket prices to rise even further to cover a large pool of drivers to sit around all day watching tv, only required if Network Rail screw up the infrastructure?

General shortage of drivers?  FGW has had their biggest ever driver recruitment programme running in the past 24 months.

Yes, there are occasions where all available cover staff options have been exhausted, and someone oversleeps/goes sick last minute (do you want a sick driver in charge of your safety?), and so the blame is square on the operational staff, but this is not a regular occurrence and it really does not justify the number of times you make your swipe at "staff availability".

I've said it once and i'll say it again, staff try to do their best, whether it's at the station, on-board or just by posting on here.  There are bad apples, which applies to every company, in every industry.

There is not one member of railway staff that is happy with the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) area performance and it hurts many of us that we are physically unable to provide the service customers pay hard earned money for, but remember we're not here just to take endless pot-shots from you.

[TaplowGreen]

Blimey that all sounds rather dramatic! What does it take to make a signal fall over?

Glad I came back from Plymouth yesterday! (on the 1510 from Plymouth, which was only 5 minutes late into Reading!!!)  

A total lack of maintenance and abysmal management by Network Rail, yet the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) continue to allow it to happen.  If a train operator performed this badly their franchise would have been stripped by now.

...........I would imagine that a few people at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are looking nervously over their shoulders then judging by recent performance around cancellations/delays/short formations/dangerous overcrowding due to  train faults, staff "not available" etc! 

I doubt it. FGW are in the same boat as Northern, FTPE^» (First TransPennine Express - website), Anglia, London Midland and one or two others and can easily justify the reason. Not enough trains.
Should a manager leave a position they will easily get another job with another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) or go into consultancy where there is significantly more money.
Whilst passengers continually point the finger of blame at the TOC the DfT the aren't going to take a blind bit of notice.  This afterall, is what they wanted from rail privatisation.  They knew it would cost a fortune to modernise so effectively washed their hands of it only taking an interest in bashing TOCs when a general election is close to win a few extra votes.

Up to a point, yes, but the constant blaming of DFT^▸ (Department for Transport)/NR^» (Network Rail - home page) etc does come across a bit like Laurel blaming Hardy...........FGW are responsible for maintaining their trains and ensuring that their staff attend work as far as I know, not sure how train failures, pathetic levels of communication, leaving passengers stranded without information for hours, staff unavailability etc can be blamed on other agencies?

 

Surely the only person responsible for ensuring a member of staff attends work is the member of staff themselves?

You make the "staff unavailability" comment on a regular basis every time you get on your anti-FGW soapbox.  Just to reassure you, there are not endless numbers of rail staff who cannot be bothered to attend work.

It could be unavailable due to a simple rostering error, it could be unavailable due to the disruption stranding the staff needed for the specific service (especially if specific traction/route knowledge is required.)  There are normally "cover/standby" staff that can be dispatched at a moments notice to cover late running drivers [of course you wouldn't know this as it's seemless!]...or what about drivers who require a break -- while i'm sure a late service would irritate you if the driver was sat having a cup of tea, surely this is preferable to him being forced to ignore his legal break requirements and have a safety related incident?

At what point do you want ticket prices to rise even further to cover a large pool of drivers to sit around all day watching tv, only required if Network Rail screw up the infrastructure?

General shortage of drivers?  FGW has had their biggest ever driver recruitment programme running in the past 24 months.

Yes, there are occasions where all available cover staff options have been exhausted, and someone oversleeps/goes sick last minute (do you want a sick driver in charge of your safety?), and so the blame is square on the operational staff, but this is not a regular occurrence and it really does not justify the number of times you make your swipe at "staff availability".

I've said it once and i'll say it again, staff try to do their best, whether it's at the station, on-board or just by posting on here.  There are bad apples, which applies to every company, in every industry.

There is not one member of railway staff that is happy with the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) area performance and it hurts many of us that we are physically unable to provide the service customers pay hard earned money for, but remember we're not here just to take endless pot-shots from you.

Impressive rhetoric definitely, using a number of paragraphs to selectively address about eight words of what I said, and some things I didn't even mention!

Sorry if I touched a nerve, this is fundamentally about TOCs (not just FGW) taking responsibility for providing a service that is reliable and fit for purpose, and not just falling back on blaming other agencies when things go wrong - as I implied before, some high visibility action in terms of addressing issues around signalling etc would help, not just guff from Hopwood about "signalling" to NR that their performance isn't good enough.

I wasn't taking "Pot shots" at individuals so no need to be defensive, FGW/TOC need to take proactive ownership of issues within their control and spheres of influence rather than giving the appearance of being content to lie back and take it (so to speak) which is what enrages their customers at the moment.

Vague promises about things getting better years in the future is not really good enough when you're standing on a wet, overcrowded platform with no information or help available I'm afraid.

Anyway "amen" from me on this and have a good, delay free day all!

[ChrisB]

High-visibility".....so YouTube video then of an argument?

Get real.

[IndustryInsider]

Vague promises about things getting better years in the future is not really good enough when you're standing on a wet, overcrowded platform with no information or help available I'm afraid.

Yes, I agree completely and I'm amazed that Mark Hopwood appears to be lying down and accepting the amount of rain over the last few weeks.  Weather provider, Mother Nature, really needs to sort her act out.  Mr. Hopwood should 'grow some' and publicly demand action from this elusive Mrs. Nature, or at the very least personally cough up some money to install great big buckets in the sky above his stations to catch all this unnecessary water.

[Super Guard]

Impressive rhetoric definitely, using a number of paragraphs to selectively address about eight words of what I said, and some things I didn't even mention!

Sorry if I touched a nerve, this is fundamentally about TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) (not just FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) taking responsibility for providing a service that is reliable and fit for purpose, and not just falling back on blaming other agencies when things go wrong - as I implied before, some high visibility action in terms of addressing issues around signalling etc would help, not just guff from Hopwood about "signalling" to NR^» (Network Rail - home page) that their performance isn't good enough.

I wasn't taking "Pot shots" at individuals so no need to be defensive, FGW/TOC need to take proactive ownership of issues within their control and spheres of influence rather than giving the appearance of being content to lie back and take it (so to speak) which is what enrages their customers at the moment.

Vague promises about things getting better years in the future is not really good enough when you're standing on a wet, overcrowded platform with no information or help available I'm afraid.

Anyway "amen" from me on this and have a good, delay free day all!

The reason I take issue with eight or so words, is you make the staff "unavailable" dig on a regular basis.  I'm not saying you are targeting anyone individually, but yes you do touch a nerve, as most front-line rail staff feel they belong to an extended family.

I've given you a number of reasons as to why the delay reason "a member of train crew being unavailable" is used, and it really is extremely rare that "oh they just didn't turn up, sorry train cancelled/delayed".

As the service provider, then yes customers will look to FGW as the one to blame regardless of cause.  The fact that you are on this board shows you want/have a greater understanding of how the railway run and hopefully by now understand no matter how much Mr. Hopwood goes shouting to NR and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), ultimately, FGW have to just deal with the infrastructure they are provided.

Are FGW blameless?  Of course not, but decisions are made with the best of intentions to recover the wider service and karma/mother nature/stuff happens and turns it all on its head.  Maintenance schedules can be followed to the T, but breakdowns can still happen.  With infrastructure issues, we take the hits anyway, because as was pointed out a few posts back the DfT love the situation - they can control the railway, and the TOCs get all the blame.

I personally believe no matter how much Mr. Hopwood and the NR Route Director stand up and say their usual pieces, that there is something very much broken in the NR/TOC relationship, which is no doubt replicated across the National network and ultimately does not provide the service for the passengers that we as front-line staff want and try to provide you everyday.

[TaplowGreen]

High-vuisibility".....so YouTube vuideo then of an argument?

Get real.


Vague promises about things getting better years in the future is not really good enough when you're standing on a wet, overcrowded platform with no information or help available I'm afraid.


Yes, I agree completely and I'm amazed that Mark Hopwood appears to be lying down and accepting the amount of rain over the last few weeks.  Weather provider, Mother Nature, really needs to sort her act out.  Mr. Hopwood should 'grow some' and publicly demand action from this elusive Mrs. Nature, or at the very least personally cough up some money to install great big buckets in the sky above his stations to catch all this unnecessary water.

It's a shame that what was a decent if heated discussion has to be reduced to childish sarcasm by a few.....I may not wholly agree with what you say and lack your knowledge of the intricacies of the railway system however I do at least respect your opinons, and am a fare paying customer so I think I am entitled to mine....

Superguard thankyou for your response which attempts to explain the issues involved....on some issues we agree, on others we will have to agree to differ, I hope we can continue to do so in a civil manner.

[ChrisB]

....just as we are entitled to ours (of yours), eh?

[TaplowGreen]

....just as we are entitled to ours (of yours), eh?

By all means, they are welcome, even more so if they can be expressed in a manner befitting an adult.

[ChrisB]

But adults tend to want to understand/learn, rather than rant, surely? :-)

[grahame]

I am ... delighted ... that our forum helps bring together people who are intricately linked in the system of rail travel as they move around by train (on one hand) and provide and operate the systems that allow and made the trains move around (on the other).   Far too often the world of the two groups seem far apart - and indeed, why should a passenger need to know about corroding signal posts, or a conductor need to know about a passenger's requirement to be on time to pick up a child from the childminder?  Perhaps there's no need, but it sure as heck helps us to understand each other, to be helpful and accommodating both ways where we could be needlessly and unintentionally awkward.  Alas, just occasionally frustration on one side or the other leads to a more robust discussion than is immediately useful.

I'm a passenger - or I was.  I got involved in this stuff in the last decade, and the whole of this forum was based on the premise that 2 trains each way a day, pre-dawn and post-dark, with cancellation rated of 30% some weeks, wasn't appropriate for our town - it was hurtful economically in that it made the service useless, and I had a feeling that the service wasn't making money for the operator either. You'll find some robust and critical posts at the time, but the criticisms may have tended to have been of the operations that caused such problems, and not of the systems and politics and other things behind those operations which wasn't equipping them to succeed.

Moving on ... I have learned a lot, so tend to be very much sympathetic and supportive of the rail industry in which most of the staff are excellent, work their hearts out to do a good job, and especially here on this forum are going out of their way and beyond this duties to help the passenger.  Readers may suggest that the rail industry should be providing that customer support rather than leaving it to volunteers here - who deserve our huge thanks even if they bring bad news - but that lack of provision of this sort of forum is a subject for another day.

We have come streets forward since the days that we started - 2007.  Better reliabiity came to the TransWilts within a couple of years, and a more appropriate service, all be it on a trial basis, in late 2013.   People say they're amazed how quick that was, which leaves me open-mouthed in shock, and should act as an alert to other passengers of just how long the updates to infrastructure will take before things truly get better.   Looking forward, there are good indicators that the community is to be more involved into the future - source, our Community Rail Officer designate who had a meeting up in London yesterday.   It won't make for instant change, but it may make for greater community involvement away from the more far-flung and smaller lines which have been traditional Community Rail territory.  But I'm going beyond this thread here.

[NickB]

The 7.08 maidenhead to Paddington has broken down at slough on the fast line. Loss of air pressure to brakes.
Ho hum.

[NickB]

And we're moving again.
TM^‡(resolve) had announced that the train would need to be emptied via the 1 door still in the platform at slough but fortunately that was avoided.