Thames Valley infrastructure problems causing disruption elsewhere - 2014

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

I believe there's a points failure at Southall (loss of detection) which affects the main lines.  Not helped by the closure of the relief lines for engineering works

[autotank]

I was held up by this - the 2027 RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) was 25 late in the end. On the plus side I got to travel some very rare track at Southall where we passed through the old Brentford branch platform and then corssed right over to the up relief!

[ChrisB]

As discussed, weekend working relies in a lot of rest-day volunteers. Staff voted with their feet to show that they *do* want time off over Christmas, hence the staff shortages.

Happens across the industry, no inquiry needed

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, more staff do want time off over Christmas - no surprises there (and for the record that doesn't impact on my belief you could easily get enough volunteers for a skeleton Boxing Day if you paid a descent amount!).  The rostering should be robust enough to deal with that as there are only a certain number of drivers (or TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context)'s) allowed to be off on a given day.  For example, just this week it looks like over 20 days of holiday requests have been declined at Oxford drivers depot alone!

But a huge backlog of route and traction knowledge amongst established staff, and a large number of vacancies still to be filled is causing even more problems than it would normally do.  The fault for that lies squarely at FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s door.

[eightf48544]

I was held up by this - the 2027 RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) was 25 late in the end. On the plus side I got to travel some very rare track at Southall where we passed through the old Brentford branch platform and then corssed right over to the up relief!

Have you highlighted the lines in your track plan booklet?

I've not done it in the Up direction so i'm jealous, but have done it in the Down on a service train.

i've also done it a couple of times on railtours to the Brentford branch.

[TaplowGreen]

Yes, more staff do want time off over Christmas - no surprises there (and for the record that doesn't impact on my belief you could easily get enough volunteers for a skeleton Boxing Day if you paid a descent amount!).  The rostering should be robust enough to deal with that as there are only a certain number of drivers (or TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context)'s) allowed to be off on a given day.  For example, just this week it looks like over 20 days of holiday requests have been declined at Oxford drivers depot alone!

But a huge backlog of route and traction knowledge amongst established staff, and a large number of vacancies still to be filled is causing even more problems than it would normally do.  The fault for that lies squarely at FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s door.

Sounds to me like 6 of one and half dozen of the other - to an extent the tail is wagging the dog, in most situations the starting point is "we need to have enough staff to maintain the service" before any A/L is considered, but if there are not enough staff with the necessary skills to start with without relying on people giving up rest days then that becomes tricky.......agreed though, money talks, but again it comes down to having the right people available, not just lots of bodies....both sides probably need to consider their positions to find a solution....suspect staff will cling onto their "right" to have Xmas day/Boxing day off as of right however that's not sustainable in the longer term if the politicians/public demand a Boxing Day service (which they already are) and Xmas engineering possessions become less of an issue........sometime around 2100 then?  

[Electric train]

Yes, more staff do want time off over Christmas - no surprises there (and for the record that doesn't impact on my belief you could easily get enough volunteers for a skeleton Boxing Day if you paid a descent amount!).  The rostering should be robust enough to deal with that as there are only a certain number of drivers (or TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context)'s) allowed to be off on a given day.  For example, just this week it looks like over 20 days of holiday requests have been declined at Oxford drivers depot alone!

But a huge backlog of route and traction knowledge amongst established staff, and a large number of vacancies still to be filled is causing even more problems than it would normally do.  The fault for that lies squarely at FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s door.

Sounds to me like 6 of one and half dozen of the other - to an extent the tail is wagging the dog, in most situations the starting point is "we need to have enough staff to maintain the service" before any A/L is considered, but if there are not enough staff with the necessary skills to start with without relying on people giving up rest days then that becomes tricky.......agreed though, money talks, but again it comes down to having the right people available, not just lots of bodies....both sides probably need to consider their positions to find a solution....suspect staff will cling onto their "right" to have Xmas day/Boxing day off as of right however that's not sustainable in the longer term if the politicians/public demand a Boxing Day service (which they already are) and Xmas engineering possessions become less of an issue........sometime around 2100 then?  

In that case I demand that Parliament sits on Boxing Day and all other business are open as normal, including schools, Banks et all

[IndustryInsider]

In that case I demand that Parliament sits on Boxing Day and all other business are open as normal, including schools, Banks et all

And presumably all boxing rings?

[TaplowGreen]

Yes, more staff do want time off over Christmas - no surprises there (and for the record that doesn't impact on my belief you could easily get enough volunteers for a skeleton Boxing Day if you paid a descent amount!).  The rostering should be robust enough to deal with that as there are only a certain number of drivers (or TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context)'s) allowed to be off on a given day.  For example, just this week it looks like over 20 days of holiday requests have been declined at Oxford drivers depot alone!

But a huge backlog of route and traction knowledge amongst established staff, and a large number of vacancies still to be filled is causing even more problems than it would normally do.  The fault for that lies squarely at FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s door.

Sounds to me like 6 of one and half dozen of the other - to an extent the tail is wagging the dog, in most situations the starting point is "we need to have enough staff to maintain the service" before any A/L is considered, but if there are not enough staff with the necessary skills to start with without relying on people giving up rest days then that becomes tricky.......agreed though, money talks, but again it comes down to having the right people available, not just lots of bodies....both sides probably need to consider their positions to find a solution....suspect staff will cling onto their "right" to have Xmas day/Boxing day off as of right however that's not sustainable in the longer term if the politicians/public demand a Boxing Day service (which they already are) and Xmas engineering possessions become less of an issue........sometime around 2100 then?  

In that case I demand that Parliament sits on Boxing Day and all other business are open as normal, including schools, Banks et all

.....or you'll take your football home and then no-one will be able to play?

Sorry but you're not remotely comparing apples with apples......but if you think its a valid argument the business of Government goes on 24/7/365....hospitals, defence, emergency services etc........Banks provide a service online and via ATM^▸ (Automated Teller Machine, or 'at the moment', depending on context) etc......they make adequate provision to cope with the nature of their customers demand........the railways, with a few exceptions, provide no service in the face of high demand......I am sure Nurses, soldiers, paramedics would all like 2 guaranteed, untouchable days off over Xmas but like the majority of us who have chosen to work in service organisations we realise that its not always possible so we get on with it as best we can. My last word on this subject anyway.

[ChrisB]

Agreed - just the definition of "reasonable" relating to payroll uplift that has to be agreed.

Maybe the same as the majority of other staff that have to work over that day,. eh? :-)

[TaplowGreen]

Read an interesting article in the paper tonight suggesting that in order to avoid this chaos a week long "shutdown" in August for engineering might be better than the 52 hour rush over Christmas - the idea being that there is more daylight to use, lots of people on holiday so less impact on commuters, and fewer "occasional" travellers going home/travelling long distance for a major event such as Christmas...........any thoughts on this?

[ChrisB]

It would certainly need advertising at/before January each year.

Interesting thought, though. Everyone would expect a week free on their season ticket....

[johoare]

It is an interesting idea as long as it was advertised a long time in advance... It think it would still affect commuters more though as I bet more take time off over Christmas than on a random week in August since the "summer holidays" are longer than the Christmas holidays.. I think it might be a no go though for longer distance travellers..

There are certain places where it's easy to get alternative trains/buses but some where it's not...

From Maidenhead e.g. there is a bus that goes to Heathrow (to connect with the tube if it's running), plus High Wycombe and Bracknell on other train lines are 10 miles away (in opposite directions) though the buses to get to Bracknell in particular are rather non existent.. 

It would need to be carefully thought out obviously but it's not impossible and if it removed the chaos of Saturday well why not at least work out if it's feasible..

[TaplowGreen]

It is an interesting idea as long as it was advertised a long time in advance... It think it would still affect commuters more though as I bet more take time off over Christmas than on a random week in August since the "summer holidays" are longer than the Christmas holidays.. I think it might be a no go though for longer distance travellers..

There are certain places where it's easy to get alternative trains/buses but some where it's not...

From Maidenhead e.g. there is a bus that goes to Heathrow (to connect with the tube if it's running), plus High Wycombe and Bracknell on other train lines are 10 miles away (in opposite directions) though the buses to get to Bracknell in particular are rather non existent.. 

It would need to be carefully thought out obviously but it's not impossible and if it removed the chaos of Saturday well why not at least work out if it's feasible..

(Very) simplistically for the Thames Valley - commuters via Reading use the Waterloo line as can those from Slough via Windsor/Datchet (slow but doable) - Tubes run from Chesham, Uxbridge, Heathrow into town and as you say there are various buses from larger commuter centres such as Maidenhead which could be beefed up giving quite a few options- loads of buses doing nothing in August whilst the schools are off..........not sure about the longer distance services.......use Reading as a terminus for services to the Westcountry/Wales with a reduced service? (if the work is taking place between Reading/Paddington? .........very much back of a fag packet stuff but I'm sure someone with more expertise than me can comment on practicalities?

[John R]

Isn't this what Network Rail wanted to do around Watford this year? And everyone got up in arms and said it wasn't right so they changed it to a much longer series of weekend possessions.