Pathing Priorities

[whole diary]

[PhilWakely]

Earlier today, reading this forum, I picked up the following comment...

Was on the 1430 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to WSM routed via Newbury. All was going well - the local to Bedwyn was held for 5 mins at Newbury to let us through, a stone train was looped just ahead of us, so just a touch on the brakes, and we approached the Westbury area scheduled to arrive into Bath Spa just 2 down.  Really slick work. Well done everyone!

Then we got to Hawkeridge Jn and Westbury panel let a late running (6 down) Warminster to Malvern just ahead of us, calling at all stations to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains).  We had caught it up by Trowbridge. Result, we duly arrived into BRI 24 down.

I've seen this happen before at this location with exactly the same consequence - on that occasion we were actually held at the junction for around 2 minutes to let the stopper past.

How can anyone decide that it's better to let a stopper through (already late) than delay it for no more than a further 2 minutes and avoid a 20+ min delay on a class 1 service run by the same TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)? Especially when further up the line, an effort appears to have been made to take some sensible decisions for the greater good. Which was all then ruined. 

I had to meet a friend earlier at Exeter St Davids off 1C79 Paddington to Plymouth, which arrived 6 minutes late at 1341. Whilst waiting, I was watching the arrival/departure boards and was intrigued as 1C79 seemed to be swapping places with XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) 1V50 Edinburgh to Plymouth. They both arrived in correct timetable sequence, but 1C79 appeared to be held to let 1V50 pass (via Platform 5). There was nothing apparently wrong with 1C79 and both were scheduled to stop only at Newton Abbot, Totnes and Plymouth.

If there was nothing amiss with 1C79, why delay it further to let another service through which was also running similarly late and stopping at the same places?

[grahame]

If there was nothing amiss with 1C79, why delay it further to let another service through which was also running similarly late and stopping at the same places?

1V50 took 56 minutes from leaving Exeter to arriving in Plymouth (arriving there just 1 minute late, having made up time), but 1C79 took 62 minutes.   Similar lateness, similar stopping places, but perhaps different train types with different acceleration curves from each stop, with the better performing train being given priority?   Result - just one train technically late into Plymouth rather than 2!    Just a guess

[readytostart]

1C79 sat at EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) for almost ten minutes due to a luggage issue apparently, guessing that 1V50 got the TRTS^▸ (Train Ready To Start. A plunger/switch pressed by platform dispatch staff that informs the signaller that a train is ready to depart.) before 1C79.

Log entry:
Incidents and Delays
Impact   Description
9 mins   EXETSTDAV - PLYMTH (Ref 820795)
RU LUGGAGE 2 EXD 1C79 LUGGAGE ISSUE EXD
3 mins   BEDWYN - WOODBORO (Ref 820633)
RZ STN OTHER LA63 PEW 1C79 3 OVERTIME PEW
 
Incident 820795
Delays
9 mins   EXETSTDAV   
Log
1C79 LUGGAGE ISSUE EXD AS ADVISED BY EXD SIG 1356 - CUSTOMERS TRYING TO LOCATE BAG - REFUSING TO GET OFF TRAIN WITHOUT IT THEN 1C79 YG 1V50 DOLR

Delay code RU = locating lost luggage
Delay code YG = regulated in accordance with regulation policy

[PhilWakely]

1C79 sat at EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) for almost ten minutes due to a luggage issue apparently, guessing that 1V50 got the TRTS^▸ (Train Ready To Start. A plunger/switch pressed by platform dispatch staff that informs the signaller that a train is ready to depart.) before 1C79.

Incident 820795
Delays
9 mins   EXETSTDAV   
Log
1C79 LUGGAGE ISSUE EXD AS ADVISED BY EXD SIG 1356 - CUSTOMERS TRYING TO LOCATE BAG - REFUSING TO GET OFF TRAIN WITHOUT IT THEN 1C79 YG 1V50 DOLR

Delay code RU = locating lost luggage
Delay code YG = regulated in accordance with regulation policy

So, a genuine, if unfortunate, reason for a later train getting priority. I hope the passenger involved gets reunited with their missing luggage [ onboard CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) ??]

[phile]

I remember in the pre-privatisation days that if a Western Region  and a Cross Country train were both approaching Westerleigh Jn at the same time, Bristol Panel always seemed to give the WR train priority.

[Oberon]

When travelling north from Bristol to Birmingham, which I do from time to time, it is a common state of affairs for a Cross Country service to find itself put behind a stopper from Redditch, crawling along from Barnt Green all the way to New Street. I suppose this can only get worse

[John R]

Given there are 6 tph on the Cross City line it's almost inevitable that will happen, so I wouldn't be critical of the signallers for that. 

[grahame]

Given there are 6 tph on the Cross City line it's almost inevitable that will happen, so I wouldn't be critical of the signallers for that. 

A dozen or so Cross Country trains per day already use the Birmingham Grand Junction - St Andrew's Junction - Bordesley Junction - Lifford East Junction - Kings Norton Junction route. Perhaps more will go that way in future to the extent that it gets removed from the Passenger Train Services over Unusual Lines list at http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/2014.htm ... and there are a couple that run via Galton Junction and Smethwick West according to that list too - not that the lines are likely to be busy via University at 05:00!

[brompton rail]

However there are 7 trains per hour - in each direction - using the Midland Railway double track East of Proof House Junction, let alone the two southernmost tracks into New Street. Bristol towards Derby trains would need to reverse in New Street's narrow platforms. Although XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) change drivers and conductors at New Street it is handy for departing staff to be able to communicate with the new staff. Not a problem with an easy or obvious solution!

[Super Guard]

1C79 sat at EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) for almost ten minutes due to a luggage issue apparently, guessing that 1V50 got the TRTS^▸ (Train Ready To Start. A plunger/switch pressed by platform dispatch staff that informs the signaller that a train is ready to depart.) before 1C79.

Incident 820795
Delays
9 mins   EXETSTDAV   
Log
1C79 LUGGAGE ISSUE EXD AS ADVISED BY EXD SIG 1356 - CUSTOMERS TRYING TO LOCATE BAG - REFUSING TO GET OFF TRAIN WITHOUT IT THEN 1C79 YG 1V50 DOLR

Delay code RU = locating lost luggage
Delay code YG = regulated in accordance with regulation policy

So, a genuine, if unfortunate, reason for a later train getting priority. I hope the passenger involved gets reunited with their missing luggage [ onboard CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) ??]

No CCTV on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)... Although wonder how sympathetic other passengers would have been if the delay caused connections to be missed at Plymouth due to a bag? 

In this case  , I was under the impression that the train doesn't wait if customer refuses to leave and is taken to the next stop and authorised back once reunited with baggage.

Good customer service for the 1 or the many?

Also a side note, once you get past Newton Abbot, the signalling sections are quite long, so even if 2 voyagers are following each other, the second one will naturally drop time.  This is the reason why the 09:35 EXD-PNZ unit has a no hold policy for connections off the 07:06 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-PGN, as any hold will delay the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) voyager behind between NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) & PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains).  (This obviously won't be an issue after December with the 07:06 running to PZ).

[brompton rail]

If there was nothing amiss with 1C79, why delay it further to let another service through which was also running similarly late and stopping at the same places?

1V50 took 56 minutes from leaving Exeter to arriving in Plymouth (arriving there just 1 minute late, having made up time), but 1C79 took 62 minutes.   Similar lateness, similar stopping places, but perhaps different train types with different acceleration curves from each stop, with the better performing train being given priority?   Result - just one train technically late into Plymouth rather than 2!    Just a guess

Ignoring the reasons why the trains were disrupted on that particular day, I believe that XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service is also an HST^▸ (High Speed Train). As XC sets have only 7 coaches I imagine theirs could accelerate slightly better than FGW^▸ (First Great Western), though the long block sections would still delay the following train. As far as I am aware XC's HSTs do have CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) in their HSTs. Sorry to be a pedant, 'cause really I ain't!

[John R]

... and there are a couple that run via Galton Junction and Smethwick West according to that list too - not that the lines are likely to be busy via University at 05:00!

Route knowledge refreshers no doubt, in the event of the line via Bromsgrove being unavailable.

[Super Guard]

Ignoring the reasons why the trains were disrupted on that particular day, I believe that XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service is also an HST^▸ (High Speed Train). As XC sets have only 7 coaches I imagine theirs could accelerate slightly better than FGW^▸ (First Great Western), though the long block sections would still delay the following train. As far as I am aware XC's HSTs do have CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) in their HSTs. Sorry to be a pedant, 'cause really I ain't!

You are correct I believe re: XC HSTs... but of course 1C79 is a FGW HST and no FGW HST has CCTV.  I'll see your comment and raise you this: if CCTV was fitted, it would not have helped finding a case while the train was sat in a platform.

The acceleration of a 7 HST vs 8 HST vs Voyager would have nothing to do with this and I imagine FGW control would not be too impressed with their service being delayed just because the XC HST had one less coach.

[brompton rail]

I agree CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) wouldn't help with finding "lost" luggage. Notices advising passengers to keep their luggage with them at all times are equally as unhelpful!

Having left luggage (once a camera bag with camera and lenses, once an attach^ case with 'mock' exam papers in it and once a SAINSBURY's carrier bag with groceries!) on trains, I have some slight simpathy with the luggage looser. However on all three occasions I didn't delay the train, perhaps mainly because the train was departing before I realised my loss. I can report, however, that I got back two of the three lost articles.
The camera went from York to Edinburgh and was retrieved by the cleaners there - returned following day in the care of a guard- BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) days of course. The SAINSBURY's shopping went from Hathersage to Manchester Piccadilly and returned on the next working of the set (also BR days). The brief case with exam papers disappeared somewhere between Worcester FS and Hereford in Central days.

[readytostart]

Just a matter to put to bed, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have no CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision)!