Northern Rail Massive Peak Hours Fares Rise

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Pieces in Modern Railways and the Today program today 8th Sep have implied that Northern Rail are putting in Peak hour restrictions on all many? services from today making up to 160% rises for people travelling between 16:30 and 18:00.

Modern Railways mentions that it seems a bit draconian as it applies to both directions into and out of the centres. thus making anight out in Manchester or Leeds more expensive.


Part of piece from Sunday 7th Guardian called Northern rail is a disgrace;

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/the-northerner/2014/sep/07/helen-pidd-i-hate-northern-rail

But it really tries my patience that despite running such a poor show they have the audacity to put prices up. From Monday, rail users travelling at what Northern calls ^the evening peak^ on any services in the Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire areas and associated routes can no longer use an off-peak ticket. In Northern World, peak time begins at 16.01 and ends at 18.29. A peak return from Rochdale to Wigan is about to jump 162% from ^4.20 to ^11. For anyone using the Manchester-Liverpool service at that hour, the journey is about to get ^4.20 more expensive each day, with an anytime return costing a hefty ^18.90.

Looking up journey on Network Rail it's not obvious it gives return trains without a fare it seems you have to select an anytime ticket on the outward half  to get a fare. But it does jump from ^4.20 to ^11

[grahame]

A peak return from Rochdale to Wigan is about to jump 162% from ^4.20 to ^11.

Just taking that as an example ... it's 26 miles each way, so that's putting the price up for people who are travelling after the morning peak out but then in the evening peak back from 8p per mile to 21p per mile.  A big step change for sure, but it's going to be hard to be totally sympathetic, when Reading to London passengers pay about 36p per mile off peak and 60p per mile in the peak - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14530.0 - and the fares per mile are even higher for longer distance journeys.

I'm also reminded of the relative rail costs ...



Northern Rail - net operator subsidy per passenger mile 25.8p;   First Great Western net operator premium per mile 2.1p.
(Yes, it all swings to subsidy when you add in Network Rail grants)

[JayMac]

Whilst Northern have implemented these changes they have done so at the behest of the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about). It is a political decision. The mandarins in Westminster decided that the subsidy paid to Northern Rail was too much and ways had to be found to reduce it.

Introducing an evening peak on Off Peak Day flows that Northern price, in the PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive) areas of Gtr Manchester, West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire, plus the line from Newcastle to Hexham, was what was decided. Flows in these areas priced by other operators, most journeys that go beyond the PTE boundaries, and Off Peak period returns, are not affected.

Detail:

http://www.northernrail.org/tickets/Off-Peak+tickets

I have to say though, I don't think it is fair to compare the pence per mile paid by a passenger in one area with that of another. Demographics are very often different. Quality of service/rolling stock is very often different. I have every sympathy for those affected by these price rises and don't think they should be stumping up more just because Reading-London passengers pay more per mile.

[grahame]

From their FAQ^▸ (Frequently Asked Questions):

Q ^I start my journey in the affected area before 16.01 but have to change trains in the affected area after 16.01?

A ... You can still travel on an off-peak ticket for the first part of your journey, but you will need to have an anytime fare or equivalent for the second leg of your journey.

Are they officially suggesting split ticketing?  Surely not 

[John R]

If you start your journey outside the affected area but before 1601 and change inside the affected area after 1601 then you can use an off peak ticket for the whole journey.

But if you start your journey inside the affected area but before 1601 and change inside the affected area (also) after 1601 then you need an anytime ticket for the second part of the journey.

That sounds very confusing.

Also, someone travelling into Manchester who needs to change at Piccadilly for, say, Oxford Rd would need to buy an extra ticket for one stop (and despite I believe one ticket normally covering both?) 

[ellendune]

While I agree with almost all that is said there has been some suggestions by the northern PTEs^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive) that the system of cost allocation means Northern pay much higher track access charges than further south.  Something to do with the cost split with freight.  I do not understand. Can someone explain?

[JayMac]

I don't know whether Northern's track access charges are significantly higher than other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) but if they are then it would appear they are offset by the very large Network Grant per passenger mile. Northern's Network Grant is nearly twice that of the next highest.

[Trowres]

From Northern's Q&A:

We understand how important it is for customers to be fully aware of the changes that are happening, when and what it means for them. That is why we are publicising these changes well in advance. This includes information at stations and on our website, our conductors will also make announcements on affected trains in the run up to the change.

Unfortunately the NationalRail website can't seem to get it right, though.  With an outward journey starting off-peak, the peak time return trains were not selectable (correct) but on changing the outward fare selected using the "other tickets" option I was presented with a "service error" message (easy to miss) and the return journeys were still not selectable.

[grahame]

While I agree with almost all that is said there has been some suggestions by the northern PTEs^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive) that the system of cost allocation means Northern pay much higher track access charges than further south.  Something to do with the cost split with freight.  I do not understand. Can someone explain?

I don't know whether Northern's track access charges are significantly higher than other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) but if they are then it would appear they are offset by the very large Network Grant per passenger mile. Northern's Network Grant is nearly twice that of the next highest.

I think the network grant is paid to Network Rail and not to the train operating company, and the figure shown is the amount paid to Network Rail for each passenger mile over the sections of track served by each TOC; there clearly has to be some formula used to decide who's passenger miles are going to be counted over shared use lines when a table such as the one above is produced.

Cost per mile to operate and maintain a track with a frequent, long, busy service is going to be higher than a track with a few short trains, but not higher in proportion to the passengers carried.  For example, if 8 services per day from Trowbridge to Chippenham increased to 12 (extras at 05:30, 08:38, 17:21 and 21:38), passenger numbers would (educated guess) increase by around 50% , but Network Rail maintenance and operating costs only by (say) 10%, thus resulting an Network Rail grant 10% higher, but 36% lower if measured per passenger mile.

Northern Rail's operation is characterised (it seems to me ) by serving quite a number of long lines with rather infrequent service, and in some cases the traffic may be seasonal, and so they bias the company's "network rail" grant higher - it's an odd figure to look at anyway; at best an indicator as there are so many compromises as I see it.   If we still had three franchises in the south west (Wessex, Thames Valley and Intercity), I suspect we would see a disparity, but probably not as stark, in these parts.

[grahame]

Cost per mile to operate and maintain a track with a frequent, long, busy service is going to be higher than a track with a few short trains, but not higher in proportion to the passengers carried.  For example, if 8 services per day from Trowbridge to Chippenham increased to 12 (extras at 05:30, 08:38, 17:21 and 21:38), passenger numbers would (educated guess) increase by around 50% , but Network Rail maintenance and operating costs only by (say) 10%, thus resulting an Network Rail grant 10% higher, but 36% lower if measured per passenger mile.

Strikes me ... I made a jump from cost to grant (i.e. making up any shortfall between TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) access charges) by "slight of hand" there, which I should not have done.    I don't have easy figures quickly available, but it's probable that the track access charges paid by my four extra trains would exceed the 10% extra costs, thus making not only the amount per mile lower, but also the overall amount lower.   In other words, Network Rail would get the extra money it needed to support the extra trains from the TOC via the farebox, and indeed the amount it got would quite likely be in excess of the amount needed to support the extra trains, thus reducing the network grant in real terms as well as (quite dramatically) in percentages.   To quote Claire Perry when we were discussing costs a week ago on Friday, "It's complicated". 

[IanL]

In the not so dim and distant past, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) made a similar change^changing the earliest train for stations beyond Oxford that a saver ticket could be used on for travel to London Paddington, effectively an overnight increase way in excess of the headline increase by an order of magnitude.