Thatcham to Peterborough - daily travel for a week

[whole diary]

[BerkshireBugsy]

Hi all - I have a piece of work coming up in Peterborough for a week and have decided to commute daily. If this was a job in London it would be a no brainer - I would get a weekly ticket which pay for itself in 3 days. So what is the cheapest way of ding the full journey ? Is it worth looking at a daily zone 6 boundary to Peterborough ? I'm only doing monad to Friday btw

Thanks

[JayMac]

Is any Season ticket already held?

[BerkshireBugsy]

Is any Season ticket already held?

Nope BNM

[Network SouthEast]

A 7 day season ticket from Thatcham to Peterborough is ^263.70.

An Anytime day return is ^148.00.

So for anything more than one day, the 7 day season is better value.

Both ticket options also include Underground travel.

[grahame]

A 7 day season ticket from Thatcham to Peterborough is ^263.70.

An Anytime day return is ^148.00.

Ratio is 1.78

Other ratios ...
Melksham to Paddington via Swindon 1.59 (157.00 for a day, 250.50 for a week)
Reading to Paddington 2.4 (42.50 for a day, 102.20 for a week)
Westbury to Swindon via Melksham 3.93 (9.90 for a day, 39.00 for a week)

[BerkshireBugsy]

Thanks guys - out if curiosity how much is an anytime return from zone 6 boundary to Peterborough ? I'm asking because there may be a change of plan .

[JayMac]

Anytime Day Return from Boundary Zone 6 to Peterborough is ^32.50. This ticket is routed 'FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) Only' so couldn't be used in combination with another ticket for travel on East Coast services. There are no 'Any Permitted' fares for BZ6-PBO.

Not easy to find a split that will save money on the through 7 day Season and afford travel on East Coast between Kings Corss and Peterborough.

If money saved is more important than journey time then you could go for:

Thatcham - London Zones 1-6, 7 day Season @^125.30
Hadley Wood - Peterborough, 7 Day Season (FCC Only) @^93.80
^219.10

Travel would have to be on First Capital Connect from Moorgate and you must take a FCC service that calls at Hadley Wood. That means you'd also then have to change at Welwyn Garden City for another FCC service to Peterborough.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks, as ever, for your apparently tireless research efforts, bignosemac. 

[John R]

Hi all - I have a piece of work coming up in Peterborough for a week and have decided to commute daily.

Thanks

Just to challenge your original assumption, wouldn't it much easier and less wear and tear on you to stay in a cheap hotel chain in or around Peterborough for four nights?

[stuving]

Now I'm not a time-served expert in these matters, but both BRFares and Journey Planner agree that the off-peak return for this journey has restriction code 1T. This is a bit of a minefield, as the rules change on Monday 7th September and don't stop changing then. And the off-peak return is still ^99, so this doesn't alter the conclusion. Note that off-peak singles don't exist.

The only peak-hours restriction is on leaving Kings Cross from 06:44 to 7:59 - none on the return to Kings Cross, and none into or out of Paddington. So the 8:03 (8:48 into Peterborough) is OK, and the previous train is 7:35 but I'd assume even the first train from Thatcham at 6:02 (7:01 into Paddington) would not get you onto it. So it's hard to see what the anytime return is for.

[JayMac]

Your analysis is correct stuving. Well spotted.

However, the Anytime Return is still of use for anyone wishing to travel to Peterborough from Kings Cross between 1559 and 1746. It also has five days validity on the outward portion allowing more flexibility on when you start your journey, and allows for overnight breaks of journey en route. Off Peak and Super Off Peak only allow an overnight BoJ^▸ (Break of Journey) on the outward portion if the journey cannot be completed in one day. And then onward travel must be completed on day two.

Whether that extra flexibility is worth the extra ^49 will be down to the individual. I would be a little concerned that there is the potential for the Anytime Return to be mis-sold though. Very easy for a clerk to assume that it's an Anytime fare for a passenger rocking up at Thatcham at 6am.

It does happen. I had a clerk at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) who was insistent that I couldn't have an Off Peak Day Return from Shirehampton to Waterloo travelling on the 0722 off Bristol via Salisbury. I go the classic response, "Day Returns to Salisbury aren't valid 'til 0930." I replied, "I'm not going to Salisbury." She countered, "Same applies travelling via Salisbury." A little more to-ing and fro-ing and I eventually got my ticket. Validity, incidentally, for this fare is any train timed to arrive London Waterloo after 1000. So the 0722 changing at Salisbury is fine.

[stuving]

I looked at this mainly to see if it the choice of tickets was the same as going to Cambridge, a trip I did in July. I went from Wokingham not Thatcham, but the ticket choice and restrictions seem to be the same from both. But no - while both routes go via Kings Cross, it's quite different.

For Peterborough there are anytime and super off-peak singles and returns, but off-peak returns only. No day tickets. Off-peak has code 1T (see post above) while super off-peak has C4: outward only restricted to arrive in London after 10:00. For Cambridge, however, there are anytime and off-peak day returns and singles, and only off-peak period returns. No anytime period return and no super off-peak. Off-peak has code 4J: no departing from anywhere 4:30 to 9:30 outward, and the same returning with some exceptions along the south coast. Off-peak day has code C4 - as super off-peak to Peterborough!

Not it's true that Peterborough is quite a bit further, but still ... I'm sure that makes as much sense to you as it does to me. I imagine what dictates this is the flow ownership; FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) rather than East Coast. But that does not, to my mind, make it any more sensible.

[paul7575]

The reason for this offpeak availability difference is that Peterborough is outside the 'Network area', unlike say Cambridge which is firmly inside.  AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) for fares that cross London to a destination 'outside' the former NSE^▸ (Network South East) Area morning restrictions are applied only to the main leg out of London.

Needless to say there are some staff that won't know this, particularly on gate lines...

Paul

[JayMac]

There are historical reasons at play as well. Cambridge is in the former Network SouthEast area while Peterborough is outside it. Fares policy and the types of fares available hark back to the pre-privatisation era with Cambridge being NSE^▸ (Network South East) sector's responsibility and Peterborough (although served by NSE trains) being InterCity's.

[stuving]

The reason for this offpeak availability difference is that Peterborough is outside the 'Network area', unlike say Cambridge which is firmly inside.  AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) for fares that cross London to a destination 'outside' the former NSE^▸ (Network South East) Area morning restrictions

There are historical reasons at play as well. Cambridge is in the former Network SouthEast area while Peterborough is outside it. Fares policy and the types of fares available hark back to the pre-privatisation era with Cambridge being NSE sector's responsibility and Peterborough (although served by NSE trains) being InterCity's.

The Network Area is more than just historical, of course. In code 1T (and a lot of others, used across the country) there is this text under "General Conditions (for this ticket type)":

Off-Peak tickets for journeys
starting within the Network
Area to destinations outside
the Network Area with travel
via London are valid by any
train to London, to connect
with trains from London.

That applies to THA-PBO, and the time restrictions at KGX which it inherits are more generous than at other termini. If you apply that rule you'll probably find that from somewhere like Yeovil or Exeter the off-peak return to PBO is cheaper than the anytime to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) and unrestricted on that leg. But in that case you get a different restriction code, to stop you doing that.

This follows:

Off-Peak tickets for journeys
starting outside the Network
Area for travel via London use
restrictions from the origin
station to London and return.
Unless shown otherwise, they
are unrestricted between
London and the destination
station, and return.

For super off-peak the wording is different, though the meaning is the same.

There is no text for off-peak journeys within the Network Area, even for THA-CBG, which is one. There might be a justification for a simpler rule with the same peak across the area, on the grounds that this is all commuter territory. But for the Network Area - Exeter to Kings Lynn - but not for other "metro areas", I don't buy that.

By the way, the super off-peak to PBO I now find is code 9D, not C4 as I said. However, that is even more puzzling in that it is less restrictive that C4 - outward peaks at KGX 3:00 to 9:05 and 15:00 to 18:59. However, it has a return morning peak restriction into KGX at 4:30 to 11:17, while C4 has none.

I can understand that the basic off-peak restriction is pretty regular for one London terminus, corresponding to when the system is fully loaded. I can also understand a desire to not apply all those restrictions to across-city journeys, which don't involve all that many travellers. But as applied now, it's still a mess. If all the odd differences are just a historical accident, I'd say that might be accurate as history but it's not a good reason.