Early departure - what are passenger's rights?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

The 15:53 train from Melksham to Westbury left today at 15:50 (doors perhaps closed at 15:49!).   I know this, because I checked the time on my phone, and so did several other people. And within a few seconds, an intending passenger ran up, gesticulated at the train, but it carried on.

FIRST QUESTION.  Why did the train pull out of the station 3 minutes before the departure time shown on the timetables?

On a first call to the help point, we were informed that the train had not yet left (it had!) and the gentleman we spoke to seemed uncertain whether to believe us when we assured him that it had.   He advised that the passenger should wait for the next train, which is due at 18:03.   He also advised that he would check with 'Control' but that the call was timed and might cut out, and we should call in again.

It did cut out, and we called in again and this time spoke to a lady who gave her name as "Gracious". We started the whole story again. She went away to check, came back to say that there were no alternative arrangements, and we should call First Great Western on 0345 700 0123 for advise.  She refused to accept that the train had left early - "I cannot comment on that" and told us that (by that time) it had arrived on time at Trowbridge (so it had probably had to wait at the junction anyway!)

SECOND QUESTION.  When a train leaves this early, and passengers arrive at the station as / after it has left, what are their rights?

[John R]

It's really unfortunate that there isn't a record of actual departure times from Melksham, although accrding to RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) it passed  Thingley Jn 3 mins early, Bradford Jn 1 min early, and arrived at Trowbridge 1 1/2 mins early, so some fairly strong evidence that it left Melksham early.

[grahame]

It's really unfortunate that there isn't a record of actual departure times from Melksham, although accrding to RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) it passed  Thingley Jn 3 mins early, Bradford Jn 1 min early, and arrived at Trowbridge 1 1/2 mins early, so some fairly strong evidence that it left Melksham early.

Indeed.  However, we have a number of witnesses who looked at their timepieces as the train left and the wannabe-passenger expressed loud disgust.

[bobm]

Stating the obvious I know, but there is NEVER a case for a train leaving ahead of time but even worse when there is a long gap to the next train.

I'd certainly report it, if for no other reason that it gets logged in case a pattern develops.

[grahame]

I'd certainly report it, if for no other reason that it gets logged in case a pattern develops.

Yes, reported and as a systemic question ("when do trains leave early?") rather than a complaint ... went in yesterday early evening, passed on within First a few hours later and answers awaited in due course.

I followed John R's lead and looked at Real Time Trains and noticed that a freight was due to come onto the single line as soon as the TransWilts service left it, and I note that after dawdling on the single line section, the 153 has a tight turn around at Westbury.   Both reasons for scheduling it a couple of minutes earlier in the future, but certainly no reason for unilaterally running it ahead of the public timetable.

There were lots of ons and offs at Melksham ...  14 off, 6 on, 25 (isn) on train when it left - 39/20 - and the conductor (it seemed) was hurrying them along ... whether he was thinking of the typical 30 second dwell that's allowed, feeling the delay that 2 push chairs caused, or something else, I know not.

[John R]

The 1738 from Swindon left over 2mins early tonight, leaving the 1733 to Taunton trundling behind in its wake on the approach to Chippenham. I know it's usually 1736 but its not this week and that's no excuse for Swindon station staff to despatch it early is it?

[grahame]

The 1738 from Swindon left over 2mins early tonight, leaving the 1733 to Taunton trundling behind in its wake on the approach to Chippenham. I know it's usually 1736 but its not this week and that's no excuse for Swindon station staff to despatch it early is it?

That's a very interesting one, John!

Normally it is 17:30 London to Taunton followed by 17:36 Swindon to Westbury (connecting from London - Taunton)
Today it was scheduled 17:33 London to Taunton followed by 17:38 Swindon to Westbury (connecting from London - Taunton)

According to Realtime Trains:
(Swindon - next trains)/2014/10/16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt" target="_blank">http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/SWI/2014/10/16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
Swindon to Westbury - due 17:38, left 17:35 3/4 (2 1/4 minutes early)
Paddington to Taunton - due 17:33, left 17:41 1/2 (8 1/2 minutes late)

That would have been a signalling decision to send out the Westury train first, but even when the signal was cleared the dispatch staff, the conductor and the driver should (I believe) have waited to 17:38 which was today's amended public time.  Which would have delayed your Taunton all the more!

I regret the loss of a connection ... because the system will only sell advance seats onto the TransWilts train with that particular connection it's all the worse. However, where a train is varied for just a handful of days, it's not as serious if it leaves closer to the usual time that everyone knows provided connections aren't broken as a result.   By clearing the signal, the staff on the platform and train were put ino a difficult position - go early and risk comment like this, or wait for 17:38 and risk holding up other services.

[John R]

I don't think there's any excuse for leaving early, as many people check departure times, and after two weeks would have known that the train was due to leave a bit later than usual. (I've certainly been adjusting my departure time from work by a couple of minutes.)

I suspect it wasn't a conscious decision, more a cock up by platform staff once the signallers had set the route. Given that the Taunton train was arriving into Swindon at around 1738, the sensible decision would have been to delay the local by a couple of minutes, but it seems the signallers had already decided otherwise.

It wouldn't have actually delayed us any more if the Westbury train had departed on time, as the Westbury train had to wait at Chippenham until the booked time anyway, and we were behind it.