Thousands of passengers dodging fares in Bristol area every day (Bristol Post)

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

From the Bristol Post:

THOUSANDS of rail passengers are dodging fares in the Bristol area every day, it has been claimed. And in many cases they couldn^t pay for their tickets even if they wanted to.

Among them is Phil Green who has travelled for free from Severn Beach to Bristol for years ^ despite often trying to pay. A single ticket from Severn Beach to Temple Meads can cost as little as ^2.

Like scores of others, Mr Green walks on and off the service without being given the option to buy a ticket and today he is calling for more ticket inspectors on trains in the Bristol region.

A recent run-in with staff at Bristol Temple Meads led him to question policy on this and other local lines where it is estimated hundreds of thousands of pounds are left uncollected.

Rail campaigners are backing Mr Green, 52, from Pilning, claiming taxpayers^ money is being lost.

And it is not just the Severn Beach line, with other local stations highlighted as hotspots for easy fraud.

The city council^s transport boss Mark Bradshaw said people were being ^denied the option to pay^ and added that the local rail network could suffer.

First Great Western, which runs the Severn Beach line, said ^it is unfair that those passengers who choose to pay subsidise those who do not^. But a spokesman added the company had already introduced more staff to help ensure passengers are charged.

The Department of Transport subsidises First Great Western for rail services in the South West to the tune of ^2 per passenger.

Mr Green, who works in graphic design, says he and his friends often travel for free as there is no ticket collector on the train or station barriers. On a recent trip to Temple Meads he argued with staff at the barrier when forced to pay despite seeing hundreds of passengers walk off for nothing.

In a letter of complaint to First Great Western he said: ^We boarded at Severn Beach and travelled all the way to Temple Meads, without one single fare being collected. I would say roughly during that trip there was at least 100 people who used it in that distance and not one fare collected.

^When we arrived at Temple Meads we were ordered to pay to leave the station, but had we got off the station before we wouldn^t have had to pay a penny.

^I believe this is a needed service for the rural community and I do believe it is subsidised at cost to the taxpayer.

^Surely when they do the figures it looks like the train is hardly ever used at which the train company will either get more subsidies or stop the service.^

David Redgewell, co-chairman of the Severnside branch of national campaign group Rail Future, said he was appalled at the system, which he said encouraged ^fraud^. He said: ^This is taxpayers^ money and we should be getting a better service here.^

The Severn Beach line now has more than a million passengers a year, according to the Severnside Community Rail Partnership. The partnership based their findings on fares sold rather than passenger numbers which means the statistics are conservative.

The surge in popularity of the line stems from the city council subsidising it from 2008 until 2013, which meant train services could run every 40 minutes for most of the day. The size of the subsidy was about ^106,000 a year.

Although the council no longer has any control over the line, transport boss Mark Bradshaw said he was urging First Great Western to improve ticket collection to help boost local rail further at a crucial time when long-awaited new services are in the pipeline.

[Brucey]

So he wants to be able to pay the fare. But then complains when asked to pay.

I don't quite understand   

[Super Guard]

Is the lost revenue from those alighting at earlier stops greater than employing extra staff --> less TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) profit --> less money returning to Taxpayer?

Not saying it's right that fares aren't being collected of course.

[SDS]

Is the lost revenue from those alighting at earlier stops greater than employing extra staff --> less TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) profit --> less money returning to Taxpayer?

Not saying it's right that fares aren't being collected of course.

How many stations?
How many services?
You would need at least 2 people to cover station exits per exit.
Times by 2 for AM/PM
Then you would need staff sickness/al cover/gpr

I reckon you would need a coverage of 10 extra staff at say ^13per hour x 35 hour weeks. Plus Employers NI contributions plus Pension plus uniform costs, etc etc.

Its starting to get expensive, just to collect that ^2 ticket..

[John R]

Maybe the answer is more onboard staff, rather than trying to cover every exit at stations. At a fully loaded cost of around @^20ph then it only needs 10 sales per journey to cover costs, which I suspect would be comfortably exceeded.

Has the ticket price increased since the fare structure was put in place? Perhaps a modest increase would help pay for further investment in the service, including enhanced security and revenue protection (would would then raise further revenue).

I suspect Mr Green objected to having to wait in a long queue (which can at times be very long) to get out at Temple Meads, which is perfectly understandable if he hasn't had any opportunity to purchase a ticket en route. But I agree the way it was worded could easily have been misconstrued.

With technology improving it can't be too long before a simple contactless machine could be installed that enabled the zonal fares to be issued in an instant. You could offer a discount for tickets bought in advance, to incentivise purchase before boarding. Or maybe use mobile technology offering a similar discount. 

[JayMac]

So he wants to be able to pay the fare. But then complains when asked to pay.

I don't quite understand   

His complaint is that he has to pay on arrival at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) whereas fellow passengers from Severn Beach inward, alighting at intermediate stations may not have had the opportunity to pay.

Revenue collection along the Severn Beach Line has improved immeasurably in recent years but there is still lots of revenue going uncollected. The Bristol Post article is wrong to class this as fare dodging. It isn't. It's simply a case of passengers not having an opportunity to pay their fare.

Things have improved greatly on the Severn Beach Line in recent years. Bristol City Council subsidised the improvement from an hourly to every 40 minutes service in 2008. So successful was the subsidy in attracting additional passengers and generating additional revenue that it was no longer necessary by 2013 and was therefore withdrawn. An additional later evening service (Mon-Sat) has been added to the timetable as well as a year round Sunday service.

The danger though is complacency now that the operator (FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) no longer has to comply with edicts from the local authority. Revenue collection remains an issue from those making intermediate journeys on the line. This has a knock on effect as it negatively skews the figures for passenger usage. That's to say nothing of the horrendous queues one has to face at the gateline at Bristol TM, particularly in the morning peak, of passengers who need to pay for their journey before exiting the station. The on board Assistant Ticket Examiners do a sterling job in the morning on inbound services, but such has been the success of the the improved service in attracting new passengers to the line in recent years, they simply cannot get to everyone to sell them a ticket before the train arrives at Temple Meads.

Inbound and outbound at quieter times by passengers joining anywhere other than Bristol TM I'd surmise that, at best, with only a conductor aboard, it's 50/50 whether you'll have an opportunity to pay for your journey. That's not good when it comes to analysing the cost of operating the service versus the revenue from ticket sales. Again, this is not fare dodging. It's simply a fact of not having an opportunity to pay.

If there was any such place that FGW should trial a novel ticketing solution, such as a smart card scheme, I can think of no better place than the Severn Beach Line.


And in response to John R's post, I think that a modest increase in the fares on the Severn Beach Line is somewhat overdue. They've avoided any annual increase now since 2009. From 2008-2013 the running costs of the line were subsidised by Bristol City Council. That subsidy has now ended and the line presumably wipes it's face in terms of revenue versus cost. After all, FGW don't do altruism, so one must assume that if cost starts (or already are) exceeding revenue then one or both of two things have to happen. Improve fare collection efforts or increase fares. I have no problem with the latter as long as the former is also addressed. Currently a day return (we only have Anytime fares on the SVB Line) from Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads costs ^3. That's a 27 mile round trip at an absolute bargain price of 11p per mile.

Me, advocating a fares increase? Don't worry, I've not taken leave of my senses. But in this isolated case I think it is long overdue. As long as it isn't excessive, and as long as steps are taken to improve revenue collection on the Severn Beach Line, then a modest increase in fares would, in my opinion, be palatable.

As for enhanced security, I'd pay a few more pence per journey from Shirehampton to cover the cost of CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) coverage. Elsewhere on the forum I've posted regularly about the vandalism at Shirehampton. Particularly toward the help points (we're now on our fifth). I noticed this past Tuesday that we had one of those fancy clear perspex bins installed at the station. On Wednesday I saw that it had been reduced to a pile of melted plastic. 

[eightf48544]

I must admit to being puzzled by the whole system of fare collection on our railways (not just FGW^▸ (First Great Western)). How can it be that it is considered non economic to collect fares from passengers travelling between unmanned stations.

The Severn Beach line seems to be an ideal candidate for an in depth study of the problem.

Firstly no-one seems to know the scope of the problem.

So I first suggest a weeklong census at every stations of passengers boarding and alighting for every train Saturday and Sunday as well. Would suggest October as I believe this is teh busiest month on teh railways.

YEs it would be expensive as you'd need 6 people (2 pershift) per station to cover the service times.

Then at least you'd have some figures to go on as you could asumme that anyone getting off a Bristol Bound train or joining a Severn Beach train at an intermediate station has not paid.

So what are the solutions Smart Cards like the Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) would be could but how would you ensure passengers travelling between intermediate stations  tapped in and out. it's easy at Temple Mill you charge ^10 if the passenger fails to tap in or out for each journey.

For intermediate staions maybe you have a small squad who do sweeps at intermediate stations and make people tap in and out and charge ^10 if they haven't tapped in or out, or if they haven't a smart card just issue a ^10 ticket. With random sweeps at different times including weekends and the ^10 fare you might get people  into the habit of tapping in and out.

Of course you'd have to make the smart card easy to obtain and top up and (horror) make it transferrable as only one person at time can use it at time the railways are not losing any revenue if two people use the same card. You could charge ^20 (28 ^100 fare) if someone taps in twice within an hour on the same reader. You can also flash "Child" as Oyster does to prevent adults using the card.

I've not called it a penalty fare just the maximum fare for a journey on the line. You'd obviously have to take names and addresses of non smart card holders travelling and warn them next time they re caught they will be fined.

If the census does not support this level of espenditure for the revenue gain then just make travel between intermediate stations free except perhaps to Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road but then the census will tell if those stations would be worth manning to collect lost revenue.

There is an absolutely horrible Management mantra "If you can't measure it you can't mange it!" which unfortunatley in this case is true as no-one seems to have any idea of the size of the problem or whether there is even is a problem.

[ellendune]

It seems to me that there are potentially three issues here:

1) Passengers not being able to buy tickets at unmanned stations and then on the train;
2) Passengers without tickets having to queue for an extended period to buy tickets at Temple Meads;
3) Evasion of fares.

Let us assume that the majority of people are honest and, if given the chance, would pay their fares. In that case solve the first problem, then the second goes away as passengers will have been able to but their tickets before getting to Temple Meads.

We will then leave the third issue for another day. 

The options are:

1) More staff on trains - probably expensive due to the numbers required to sell tickets in the short distance between stops;
2) More ticket machines - but then vandalism is a problem
3) A smart card - surely a metro west smart card could be devised using established technology. It works in London, Lisbon, Porto and other places around the world after all. It could be made compatible with longer distance services later if that is they way they go.  Perhaps this should be included in the next franchise specification.

[JayMac]

Of course there is the potential for smart card validators to be vandalised just as ticket machines could be.

Doesn't seem to matter what it is at my local station; help point, bin, planters, shelter... All appear attractive to the local scrotes. 

[JayMac]

Here's a picture from earlier this year of the queue at Bristol Temple Meads following arrival of an AM Severn Beach Line service. Around the same time a service arrives from Taunton, having called at Parson St and Bedminster disgorging more people to join the queue. This is not an untypical scene on weekday mornings.

On this occasion I hadn't had an opportunity to purchase a ticket on board, the ATE didn't get to me.

I repaired to Bonaparte's for coffee and a bacon sandwich while the queue died down! 

[ellendune]

Of course there is the potential for smart card validators to be vandalised just as ticket machines could be.

Doesn't seem to matter what it is at my local station; help point, bin, planters, shelter... All appear attractive to the local scrotes. 

I can see a greater potential to create a vandal proof validator. No slots or display necessary. Does TFL^▸ (Transport for London) have much problem with vandalism of validators?

[Timmer]

Does TFL^▸ (Transport for London) have much problem with vandalism of validators?

More CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) at TFL stations probably helps keep vandalism of ticket machines and validators down.

[John R]

Here's a picture from earlier this year of the queue at Bristol Temple Meads following arrival of an AM Severn Beach Line service. Around the same time a service arrives from Taunton, having called at Parson St and Bedminster disgorging more people to join the queue. This is not an untypical scene on weekday mornings.

And that's (in my view) exactly the point that Mr Green is making. It's completely unacceptable to make people queue for that long to buy a ticket to exit the station, when they haven't had any opportunity beforehand to purchase a ticket.

[trainer]

I have travelled into Temple Meads from Yatton early in the day when the conductor has sold tickets at the back door on arrival for those who wanted them. Presumably on those occasions there was time enough for that. On recent journeys I have noted at least two members of staff on three car trains on ticket checks and selling on trains from Weston.

I am not a regular commuter so cannot make any general conclusions from these isolated experiences, but it seems to me that revenue collection is part of the consideration when deciding on the finances of a rail service and knowing that it can't be collected on the train must make it imperative that a swift and efficient alternative is available.

[grahame]

I am not a regular commuter so cannot make any general conclusions from these isolated experiences, but it seems to me that revenue collection is part of the consideration when deciding on the finances of a rail service and knowing that it can't be collected on the train must make it imperative that a swift and efficient alternative is available.

It's completely unacceptable to make people queue for that long to buy a ticket to exit the station, when they haven't had any opportunity beforehand to purchase a ticket.

Journey time should be measured much more from the customer's viewpoint. In other words, the time should be from the latest practical time the passenger can arrive by his chosen means in the station area at the journey start to leaving the station at the journey end unfettered by remaining procedures.  Journey quality should look to providing minimum tensions, queues and discomfort and should maximise the time where the customer is free to have his own experience / do his own thing in as positive an environment as possible.

So in my measure of timing I might include ...
... allowing time to find a car / cycle parking space at the station and pay for it, or connecting time from bus arrival
... any ticket purchases possible at the station of departure, including queueing time
... queuing to gain access to platforms and also time to get from "gateline" to departure platform
... boarding train, where the doors of the train may close up to 120 seconds before departure
... journey time
... waiting for the doors to be opened once the train has arrived.
... time awaiting ongoing train connections, including wait for next train if a suggested connection fails
... time from arriving platform to station dateline on exit
... any queueing at gateline or at alternative ticket sales point in order to allow station exit
... time to collect onwards transport left at station and exit storage facility, or wait for bus

Queueing for up to 30 minutes to exit a station when you have had no prior opportunity to buy a ticket (that's the longest I have personally had to wait; a day on which ticket sales equipment at a station and on train had failed) is an unacceptable delay and logically, the speediest journey will be by selling on the train.   

Two thoughts on queue busting ...
1. Has anyone thought of putting simple TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) onto Severn Beach line trains - lock-clamped to a pillar, with four buttons for single and return, adult and child, exact fare only, cash. 
2. How about a chap with a bucket and a book of paper tickets for the Severn Beach flat fares at the side gate at Temple Meads, opened for a few minutes when the peak trains come in (or a 1.50 / 2.00 turnstile ...)

We had ticket sales issued on the TransWilts the other week, resulting in a whole load of people having to queue to be sold tickets in order to leave Swindon station.   In some ways it's good to have to consider such issues as our passenger numbers are much higher than forecast, but surely there must be a better way.  Apparently, there's no backup facility to sell paper tickets any more ...