Is this a scam or just accepted practice?

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Forgive me. Over tired.

Of course you just use the paper Season to exit at the interchange and re-enter with Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services). I'm guilty of over analysing.

Really should have started that afternoon kip by now.

[NickB]

So I asked FGW^▸ (First Great Western) about this issue.  My question to FGW was fairly unambigiuous - "why do FGW charge more than other operators for the same service?"

On Saturday I received a two-page letter explaining:
- Government policy on regulated fares
- The role of inflation in fare determination
- Calculation method for FGW season tickets
- Calculation method for FGW travelcards
- Ticket to usage attribution by %
- Statements around 'the fare increases' (?) being government controlled

... and finishing with an apology for the fact that I (apparently) felt that prices were "unjust and unfair".


At no point in the reply was the pricing relative to other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s mentioned.  I aimagine that I've received a stock 'its August so everyone mentioning tickets must be moaning about the increase' letter.

Pretty poor all round.  I'll try again....

[ChrisB]

The piece on "Calculation method for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Travelcards" might be worth copying 'n pasting here....

[NickB]

Sure thing:

"Season ticket prices are generated by the fare of a single ticket from the origin to London Zones 1-6, added to the fare of a single ticket from the destination station to London Zones 1-6.  The 7-day travelcard fare for London Zones 1-6 is then deducted, which leaves the 7 day fare and weekly season ticket price.  To generate annual prices, this number is then multiplied by the season ticket period factors relevant to the length of the ticket.

In your case, a single ticket from Maidenhead to London Zones 1-6 is ^90.10, and a season ticket from London Paddington to London Zones 1-6 is ^57.20.  These figures added together make ^147.30, the 7-day travelcard fare for London Zones 1-6 is then taken away which is ^57.20, which leaves the weekly ticket price for your ticket at ^90.10.  This figure is then multiplied by 40 to create the figure for an annual season ticket, which is ^3604.  I am very sorry you feel this price is unjust and unfair."

So... if my english and maths skills are up to the job.  I make that a fascinating (x+y)-y=x.   

If someone else wants a bash at explaining this then I'm all ears! 

[ChrisB]

Your maths is dead right! I shall raise this with FGWs^▸ (First Great Western) Fare Implementation Manager.....crazy

[NickB]

If you can an answer to my original question too then that would be great   

[ChrisB]

indeed....

[Fourbee]

They seem to be treating London Zones 1-6 as a point-to-point destination in its own right which does not really work (aside from the warped logic).

The Zones 1-6 part should be ^57.20 for a weekly season. It is the premium that is loaded on from the outboundary station to the zone 6 boundary which is the issue they have not addressed.

[NickB]

So I resent my question to FGW^▸ (First Great Western), asking them to look again at what I'd asked them.  Their response arrived yesterday and they are either being obtuse or very slow in reaching their destination...

"I am sorry that you don't feel we have adequately addressed your concerns.

We do not set the pricing for the underground and this is an add on to the fare for the journey on our services.  I am sorry you are unhappy about the difference in cost, however as the journeys are different, we cannot compare their cost."

Arrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh   

[ChrisB]

Resend yet again, explaining & detailing the different add-on from at least two stations, and ask why, seeing at they agree it is a TfL^» (Transport for London - about) standard priced add-on, yet FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are adding different amounts on to their fare....

[NickB]

So I received a response from Passenger Focus today...  I get the impression that this fell in to the 'too complex' bin.

Thank you for your email regarding your complaint with First Great Western. I^m sorry to hear of the price differences you have found with your Season tickets to London. I can certainly appreciate the confusion this has caused you.

We are aware that Season tickets to London Termini and to Zones 1-6 can vary across the different train companies. Unfortunately, we^re not party to the charging agreement set between the various train companies and Transport for London. However we are concerned that these prices can vary quite markedly.

We have questioned whether standardisation would resolve this and how this would be implemented. However, if we were able to persuade the industry to standardise this add-on, it could lead to increases in fares to as many passengers as would benefit from a lower fare. We do feel that these add-ons should be more uniform as, afterall, passengers are all travelling on the same Underground services.

I can see from your correspondence that First Great Western have not directly addressed this issue in the correspondence with you and so I have contacted them to ask that they now do this, and copy me in to their response. I trust that you will hear from them shortly with a more substantial explanation. As this agreement is set between them and Transport for London, it may also be worth contacting TfL^» (Transport for London - about) directly to gain their comments on this issue.

We are, at present, not taking further action to standardise the add-on. Nevertheless I have logged your comments accordingly so that these will be used to identify trends. Should we receive further complaints and opposition about the add-on differences, we will use your feedback to support further investigations.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[ChrisB]

Petition time?....

[NickB]

Petition time?....

?

[ChrisB]

Should we receive further complaints and opposition about the add-on differences, we will use your feedback to support further investigations.

My emphasis....

[NickB]

Ahhhhh - got you.

Maybe others would like to prod...