Thames Valley signalling problems - big delays - July 2014

[whole diary]

[a-driver]

I should say its a minority but it's that small minority day in day out that pummels morale, and once morale is down its down
No incentives or cash will be enough to lift that morale from rock bottom. The only thing that will help is considerably more staff on the ground..... and I think from what I read this morning that could be happening.

Without wishing to trivialise in any way the examples you provide, if morale is so low and this minority causes such immense distress amongst the general workforce, could you tell me/us why are people apparently not leaving the rail industry in their droves?

They are.  Within the next 2 months they plan to recruit more drivers despite recently going through a major recruit program.  We are seriously short of drivers this weekend.  We have a huge staff turnover, especially on the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) routes and on gateline and dispatch roles with many actively looking at jobs with other train operators which is a shame, because aside from the fact Network Rail can't provide a reliable infrastructure and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) won't allocate us enough rolling stock, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is probably the best of the 3 TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) I've worked for since privatisation.

Fair enough! I would also add I wasn't intending to be antagonistic, just genuinely curious as when I used to make use of FGW services (I have had enough and now drive) i'd see the same faces all the time, but that was mainly Swansea based crews so the employment market there is probably a little less conducive to easily moving on.

So are people being poached or otherwise leaving to join other TOCs or are they exiting the industry entirely?

Apologies for thread drift...

Quite a few drivers are going from our LTV depots to join the HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) side but equally we've had a lot leave for CrossCountry, Virgin Trains, SouthEastern, London Midland, First Capital Connect, East Midlands Trains, DBS^» (Deutsch Bahn Schenker - UK^▸ (United Kingdom) website), Freightliner and a couple have moved abroad, but all staying within the railway industry as far as I'm aware.
On the other hand we seem to take a lot of qualified drivers from SWT^▸ (South West Trains), LOROL^▸ (London Overground Railway Operations Ltd) and Greater Anglia

[TaplowGreen]

I should say its a minority but it's that small minority day in day out that pummels morale, and once morale is down its down
No incentives or cash will be enough to lift that morale from rock bottom. The only thing that will help is considerably more staff on the ground..... and I think from what I read this morning that could be happening.

Without wishing to trivialise in any way the examples you provide, if morale is so low and this minority causes such immense distress amongst the general workforce, could you tell me/us why are people apparently not leaving the rail industry in their droves?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/union-boss-warns-rail-staff-could-strike-in-32-hour-week-bid.24811512

Would you leave with a 32 hour working week on the horizon? Where do I sign up? 

[a-driver]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/union-boss-warns-rail-staff-could-strike-in-32-hour-week-bid.24811512

Would you leave with a 32 hour working week on the horizon? Where do I sign up? 

Right here:
https://uk.firstgroupcareers.com/company/firstgreatwestern/home/

If you can't beat us, join us   

[TaplowGreen]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/union-boss-warns-rail-staff-could-strike-in-32-hour-week-bid.24811512

Would you leave with a 32 hour working week on the horizon? Where do I sign up? 

Right here:
https://uk.firstgroupcareers.com/company/firstgreatwestern/home/

If you can't beat us, join us   

I could certainly live with the dreadful trauma of a customer shouting at me now and again for those terms and conditions, no wonder the fares are so high!!! I like the irony of the bike to work scheme though.........handy for all those days when the trains fall over!!! 

[a-driver]

I could certainly live with the dreadful trauma of a customer shouting at me now and again for those terms and conditions, no wonder the fares are so high!!! I like the irony of the bike to work scheme though.........handy for all those days when the trains fall over!!! 

lol.  Come and find and why then (and get your discounted bike!).  I think you maybe in for a surprise, if not a shock.  Any help with the application form just give us a shout

All the information is here......
http://www.traindriver.org
http://www.how2become.com/train-driver-course/

[Ollie]

I like the irony of the bike to work scheme though.........handy for all those days when the trains fall over!!! 

Well of course, couldn't possibly be staff cycling from where they live to their local station, or cycling to the depot/station before trains are even in passenger service

[Super Guard]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/union-boss-warns-rail-staff-could-strike-in-32-hour-week-bid.24811512

Would you leave with a 32 hour working week on the horizon? Where do I sign up? 

Right here:
https://uk.firstgroupcareers.com/company/firstgreatwestern/home/

If you can't beat us, join us   

I could certainly live with the dreadful trauma of a customer shouting at me now and again for those terms and conditions, no wonder the fares are so high!!! I like the irony of the bike to work scheme though.........handy for all those days when the trains fall over!!! 

I appreciate this is all a bit of tongue-in-cheek, but I think you really believe what you say...

Have you considered how good the terms and conditions would be as you kill another human being with your train, perhaps a child?  What about being punched or spat at..?  Fear for your safety when football "fans" or others have had too much to drink and being aggressive and violent when you are the only one in a metal tube with a responsibility for safety?  Being threatened with a knife?.... and that's before you are called all the names under the sun for trying to enforce even basic revenue rules.

0200 wake-up alarms for earlies, 0200 bed-time for lates, 0800 bed-time for nights, trying to sleep with the summer heat, feeling fatigued, not able to plan a day/night out with "normal" (ie. non-railway) friends/family until a few days before because you're not sure you can get your annual leave granted.  Spare turns where you can be moved up to 3 hours each way from your original start-time that can screw any plans for your days up, or ruin your body clock that little bit more.  0600 finish off nights and then it's your day off.. what time are you sleeping so you don't waste your day off completely?

We accept it and we get on with the job, because the vast majority of staff are loyal and committed to offering the best possible service, despite mass failures in our network.  Please do not think for one minute though, that life is as simple and rosey as you portray in your blinkered view of our world.

[SDS]

We get abuse, serious abuse, physical abuse, threats and malicious accusations. We get managers who cba and automatically believe the 'paying' customer. Example being the TM^‡(resolve) who was accused of sexual abuse and was on suspension for a period while BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) 'investigated' it. That's also while the company investigated them internally (and the law of innocent till proven guilty doesn't apply in FG land.). And think of how a simple malicious accusation can cause you to loose commission, Sunday pay, allowances, rest day work and overtime?
I personally have had 2 knifes pulled on me. 1 of which BTP wasn't the slightest bit interested in, till an off-duty civi police got involved. I have been spat at, gobbed at (even worst then spittle), had needles thrown at me, punched, scratched.

Kiss goodbye to even a simple family life. Earlies? Go to bed at 17:00 and wake up at 02:00. Lates finally get home gone 02:00. Nights get home at gone 08:00 just when everyone else has woken up.

So yeah a really rosy place to work, the railway industry isn't it!!! :-p Must keep thinking the benefits outweigh the negatives. Pay is okay, 35 hour week coolish, travel perks including Europe and Eurostar great, 40:60 shared cost Final Salary Pension (if I survive that long), Private Health Insurance, a great Union, almost guaranteed payrise every year (well inflation rise anyway), to name but a few.

I have worked for several TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), including FGW^▸ (First Great Western). FGW have slipped nosedived in the support/back up of their staff. Its all "customer first" and "kiss the backside of the customer" and "Sod the employee they are but a number". I noticed that changing in the past few years and got out and moved to another TOC who are worse but support the employee so much better. When you get the FGW MD saying in the weekly corporate spin Email Newsletter '......you said to us you got no support and no information on Friday.... which is not acceptable.....' there is clearly a problem.

[chrisr_75]

I'm feeling somewhat perplexed by the railway employees here who keep telling us all how utterly dreadful it is working on the railway (which I accept it probably isn't always great on several levels) yet for some reason you stay put...?!? I just don't get why anyone would keep at it if it's really that dreadful...apart from if certain incentives are far superior to those potentially gained elsewhere?

[TaplowGreen]

Pay is okay, 35 hour week coolish, travel perks including Europe and Eurostar great, 40:60 shared cost Final Salary Pension (if I survive that long), Private Health Insurance, a great Union, almost guaranteed payrise every year (well inflation rise anyway), to name but a few.

- think that answers your question, these are terms and conditions that most of us can only dream of...........as for working shifts, millions of people do that and get nowhere near as many rest days - if you don't like it, there's always the option of getting a 9-5.

People who work in the public sector/quasi public sector jobs are almost always the worst when it comes to moaning about how hard they have it (teachers being a good example) but generally forget about these terms and conditions.

Yes this was/is tongue in cheek, a bit of light hearted banter, but I think it's time some people cooled their jets, especially if they're going to start throwing comments around about killing children with trains

To reiterate - no-one is suggesting abuse of either staff or customers is acceptable in any way, believe me I have worked in far more emotive situations than the "railway industry" and  have heard/been threatened with everything from weapons to bodily fluids - it's not right but it goes with the turf and is more about what society is prepared to tolerate these days.

Talk to guys who've held the line in Northern Ireland/Iraq/Afghan and then tell us what a hard life it is on the railways.

There endeth my sermon -have a good, safe day everyone.

[BBM]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have slipped nosedived in the support/back up of their staff. Its all "customer first" and "kiss the backside of the customer" and "Sod the employee they are but a number".

I feel that we customers are treated badly by FGW so goodness knows what it must feel like to be one of their employees. My own perception of FGW is along the lines of "kiss the backside of the once-yearly Glastonbury traveller and sod everyone else including annual season ticket holders, particularly the poor Cardiff/Newport people who see their train service cut by 50% while the Festival is on".

Thank You to all FGW staff who have posted here and yes I'm guilty of sometimes letting off steam especially to the operators of the @FGW Twitter account but I'm always polite and I thank them. I'd be very interested to know what response staff get from the MD regarding last Friday's problems because I'm not aware of any word to customers regarding last week's events.

[Super Guard]

Pay is okay, 35 hour week coolish, travel perks including Europe and Eurostar great, 40:60 shared cost Final Salary Pension (if I survive that long), Private Health Insurance, a great Union, almost guaranteed payrise every year (well inflation rise anyway), to name but a few.

- think that answers your question, these are terms and conditions that most of us can only dream of...........as for working shifts, millions of people do that and get nowhere near as many rest days - if you don't like it, there's always the option of getting a 9-5.

People who work in the public sector/quasi public sector jobs are almost always the worst when it comes to moaning about how hard they have it (teachers being a good example) but generally forget about these terms and conditions.

Yes this was/is tongue in cheek, a bit of light hearted banter, but I think it's time some people cooled their jets, especially if they're going to start throwing comments around about killing children with trains

To reiterate - no-one is suggesting abuse of either staff or customers is acceptable in any way, believe me I have worked in far more emotive situations than the "railway industry" and  have heard/been threatened with everything from weapons to bodily fluids - it's not right but it goes with the turf and is more about what society is prepared to tolerate these days.

Talk to guys who've held the line in Northern Ireland/Iraq/Afghan and then tell us what a hard life it is on the railways.

There endeth my sermon -have a good, safe day everyone.

The simple point is it's not all fab t's & c's when there is a downside to it at times.  The only downside you seem to think is you might occasionally be moaned at by a customer or two.  You might not like reading comments about kids being killed, but does it happen?  Of course it does, and no amount of pay, t's and c's is going to remove that sort of trauma.

I'm feeling somewhat perplexed by the railway employees here who keep telling us all how utterly dreadful it is working on the railway (which I accept it probably isn't always great on several levels) yet for some reason you stay put...?!? I just don't get why anyone would keep at it if it's really that dreadful...apart from if certain incentives are far superior to those potentially gained elsewhere?

I repeat my original quote:

We accept it and we get on with the job, because the vast majority of staff are loyal and committed to offering the best possible service, despite mass failures in our network.

Add to that, many of us have an interest in transport and railways.  I personally couldn't work a 9-5 job in an office anymore.  I love the views of the GW^▸ (Great Western) network, meeting staff and customers from Penzance to London (TaplowGreen i'd even buy you a pint - Reading prices though ), I have some wonderful friends all over the network, enough so that it feels like a massive family.

It hurts a lot of us to see us fail to provide the service that you pay for, and that's why so many of us contribute on here.

However i'm merely trying to get across that yes terms and conditions are great, pay is good comparable to other industries and most days are great, but not everything in our world at times is as rosey as the public might choose to believe.

[TaplowGreen]

Pay is okay, 35 hour week coolish, travel perks including Europe and Eurostar great, 40:60 shared cost Final Salary Pension (if I survive that long), Private Health Insurance, a great Union, almost guaranteed payrise every year (well inflation rise anyway), to name but a few.

- think that answers your question, these are terms and conditions that most of us can only dream of...........as for working shifts, millions of people do that and get nowhere near as many rest days - if you don't like it, there's always the option of getting a 9-5.

People who work in the public sector/quasi public sector jobs are almost always the worst when it comes to moaning about how hard they have it (teachers being a good example) but generally forget about these terms and conditions.

Yes this was/is tongue in cheek, a bit of light hearted banter, but I think it's time some people cooled their jets, especially if they're going to start throwing comments around about killing children with trains

To reiterate - no-one is suggesting abuse of either staff or customers is acceptable in any way, believe me I have worked in far more emotive situations than the "railway industry" and  have heard/been threatened with everything from weapons to bodily fluids - it's not right but it goes with the turf and is more about what society is prepared to tolerate these days.

Talk to guys who've held the line in Northern Ireland/Iraq/Afghan and then tell us what a hard life it is on the railways.

There endeth my sermon -have a good, safe day everyone.

The simple point is it's not all fab t's & c's when there is a downside to it at times.  The only downside you seem to think is you might occasionally be moaned at by a customer or two.  You might not like reading comments about kids being killed, but does it happen?  Of course it does, and no amount of pay, t's and c's is going to remove that sort of trauma.

I'm feeling somewhat perplexed by the railway employees here who keep telling us all how utterly dreadful it is working on the railway (which I accept it probably isn't always great on several levels) yet for some reason you stay put...?!? I just don't get why anyone would keep at it if it's really that dreadful...apart from if certain incentives are far superior to those potentially gained elsewhere?

I repeat my original quote:

We accept it and we get on with the job, because the vast majority of staff are loyal and committed to offering the best possible service, despite mass failures in our network.

Add to that, many of us have an interest in transport and railways.  I personally couldn't work a 9-5 job in an office anymore.  I love the views of the GW^▸ (Great Western) network, meeting staff and customers from Penzance to London (TaplowGreen i'd even buy you a pint - Reading prices though ), I have some wonderful friends all over the network, enough so that it feels like a massive family.

It hurts a lot of us to see us fail to provide the service that you pay for, and that's why so many of us contribute on here.

However i'm merely trying to get across that yes terms and conditions are great, pay is good comparable to other industries and most days are great, but not everything in our world at times is as rosey as the public might choose to believe.

Thanks - I'll have a Doom Bar please! (Plymouth prices probably more competitive!) 

[Super Guard]

Not when you add a Taplow-Plymouth fare surely... 

[chrisr_75]

Pay is okay, 35 hour week coolish, travel perks including Europe and Eurostar great, 40:60 shared cost Final Salary Pension (if I survive that long), Private Health Insurance, a great Union, almost guaranteed payrise every year (well inflation rise anyway), to name but a few.

- think that answers your question, these are terms and conditions that most of us can only dream of...........as for working shifts, millions of people do that and get nowhere near as many rest days - if you don't like it, there's always the option of getting a 9-5.

People who work in the public sector/quasi public sector jobs are almost always the worst when it comes to moaning about how hard they have it (teachers being a good example) but generally forget about these terms and conditions.

Yes this was/is tongue in cheek, a bit of light hearted banter, but I think it's time some people cooled their jets, especially if they're going to start throwing comments around about killing children with trains

To reiterate - no-one is suggesting abuse of either staff or customers is acceptable in any way, believe me I have worked in far more emotive situations than the "railway industry" and  have heard/been threatened with everything from weapons to bodily fluids - it's not right but it goes with the turf and is more about what society is prepared to tolerate these days.

Talk to guys who've held the line in Northern Ireland/Iraq/Afghan and then tell us what a hard life it is on the railways.

There endeth my sermon -have a good, safe day everyone.

The simple point is it's not all fab t's & c's when there is a downside to it at times.  The only downside you seem to think is you might occasionally be moaned at by a customer or two.  You might not like reading comments about kids being killed, but does it happen?  Of course it does, and no amount of pay, t's and c's is going to remove that sort of trauma.

I'm feeling somewhat perplexed by the railway employees here who keep telling us all how utterly dreadful it is working on the railway (which I accept it probably isn't always great on several levels) yet for some reason you stay put...?!? I just don't get why anyone would keep at it if it's really that dreadful...apart from if certain incentives are far superior to those potentially gained elsewhere?

I repeat my original quote:

We accept it and we get on with the job, because the vast majority of staff are loyal and committed to offering the best possible service, despite mass failures in our network.

Add to that, many of us have an interest in transport and railways.  I personally couldn't work a 9-5 job in an office anymore.  I love the views of the GW^▸ (Great Western) network, meeting staff and customers from Penzance to London (TaplowGreen i'd even buy you a pint - Reading prices though ), I have some wonderful friends all over the network, enough so that it feels like a massive family.

It hurts a lot of us to see us fail to provide the service that you pay for, and that's why so many of us contribute on here.

However i'm merely trying to get across that yes terms and conditions are great, pay is good comparable to other industries and most days are great, but not everything in our world at times is as rosey as the public might choose to believe.

Thank you - I think that puts it in a much better context for me - this is an emotive issue and my interpretation of some of the posts in this thread give me the impression the occasional foul mouthed shouter (or worse) is a much more significant issue than you suggest in your last post.

I think every member of this forum, and the vast majority of the travelling public would condemn any kind of abusive behaviour and also appreciate the good work that most FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff do in sometimes chaotic circumstances on behalf of a less than perfect employer.

However, I would reiterate some comments on here that it is a sad but inevitable consequence of customer facing roles that some of your 'customers' from time to time aren't very nice to you, I guess you just develop coping mechanisms for the 'minor' stuff. This isn't a new thing at all - my dad started work in the late 60's dealing with the lovely public (night pharmacy in Central London...), it just used to be easier to 'deal' with oiks in the appropriate manner back then...