Thames Valley signalling problems - big delays - July 2014

[whole diary]

[BBM]

Well I was on platform 2 staring at platform 1 from 16.00 until 17.30.  I'm not going to call anyone a liar, but to the best of my knowledge no one got on or off those HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s.  The unlock/lock would have been audible to me.

Apparently it was sometime after 17.30. I don't know how reliable the information is, it's very much second-hand from my friend's colleague. However I'm intrigued to know if any Down trains did actually stop at MAI^▸ (Maidenhead station) and TWY^▸ (Twyford station) during the main (4-hour) part of the disruption even though there's nothing on RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) to suggest they did.

[TaplowGreen]

They were on Platform 1 for the best part of an hour whilst I was on Platform 2/3 with a couple of hundred other passengers.
HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s were coming in to Platform 1 and being held at signal in the platform for about 10mins a time before going onwards towards Twyford.  The doors remained locked throughout and there was no chance of a disembark on Platform 1.

..........bet they both got an amazing sun tan! 

[a-driver]

They were probably on platform 1 ensuring passengers don't leave or attempt to board the train...... I know the doors remain locked but passengers can attempt to open the doors which causes problems with the train arrives its next booked stop with the door handle not in the horizontal position and, believe it or not, passengers have been known to board or alight through the droplight window even when the train is on the move!   
Trains with slam doors are still dispatched by the TM^‡(resolve) regardless of whether the doors are released or not at unscheduled station stops.

As for Reading station, there is always at least one member of staff on each through platform, more for the platforms served by the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train).  They have no other messroom facilities at Reading other than an open office on the platform where they have access to train signalling maps and train running information.
Each tickets barrier has to be manned by two members of staff (when in use) and the Ribena brigade will generally just reiterate what has been announced over the station tannoy or what is advertised on the departure boards.... that is why you generally find them near a departure board!

I don't blame anyone for hiding, if that is what they do. I wouldn't stand there taking a torrent of abuse from passengers for hours on end.  Its not so bad if you have accurate information but when there's nothing from Network Rail telling a passenger "we honestly don't know what time the line will reopen" doesn't generally go down well and more often than not, passengers generally don't believe it.

All you need is a massive screen or two where someone, whether it be working on the station or sat in control, can type the exact state of play and what is being done.  A system which allows "freehand input" rather than one where you are limited to what information can be displayed.  Can't be that difficult to setup.

[SDS]

One of the wonderful things that ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) dictate during disruption (PIDD^▸ (Passenger Information During Disruption)) is that the disruption messages have to be consistent and have the same meaning wherever you are in UK^▸ (United Kingdom).
Hence why you rarley would get free text messages

[a-driver]

One of the wonderful things that ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) dictate during disruption (PIDD^▸ (Passenger Information During Disruption)) is that the disruption messages have to be consistent and have the same meaning wherever you are in UK^▸ (United Kingdom).
Hence why you rarley would get free text messages

Privatisation is wonderful, when you want to apply common sense to a situation.... bosh!  someone is there to put a stop to it!

[TaplowGreen]

I don't blame anyone for hiding, if that is what they do. I wouldn't stand there taking a torrent of abuse from passengers for hours on end.  Its not so bad if you have accurate information but when there's nothing from Network Rail telling a passenger "we honestly don't know what time the line will reopen" doesn't generally go down well and more often than not, passengers generally don't believe it.

You're making loads of "generally" based assumptions here, abuse, via torrents or otherwise is inexcusable (from either side) but in my experience rarely seen - however if you've chosen to work in a public service environment where the service concerned frequently falls over you should be willing and capable of dealing with frustrated (not abusive) customers....if you're the sort of person who would hide away and leave your colleagues to deal with it and/or leave customers without assistance, perhaps you need to reassess your career choice?

Secondly, people appreciate honesty, they are far more likely to complain because they are being told nothing, rather than being given bad news - people understand that the guy on the platform is not responsible for signal failures or whatever, but they do (quite rightly) hold him responsible for keeping them informed........if it's most likely going to be hours, say so, and advise customers of alternatives where available.......don't just disappear leaving people to get more and more frustrated with no information and (in the case of Paddington on Friday) the station to get more and more overcrowded and dangerous.

[a-driver]

You're making loads of "generally" based assumptions here, abuse, via torrents or otherwise is inexcusable (from either side) but in my experience rarely seen - however if you've chosen to work in a public service environment where the service concerned frequently falls over you should be willing and capable of dealing with frustrated (not abusive) customers....if you're the sort of person who would hide away and leave your colleagues to deal with it and/or leave customers without assistance, perhaps you need to reassess your career choice?

Secondly, people appreciate honesty, they are far more likely to complain because they are being told nothing, rather than being given bad news - people understand that the guy on the platform is not responsible for signal failures or whatever, but they do (quite rightly) hold him responsible for keeping them informed........if it's most likely going to be hours, say so, and advise customers of alternatives where available.......don't just disappear leaving people to get more and more frustrated with no information and (in the case of Paddington on Friday) the station to get more and more overcrowded and dangerous.

It's a shame you have such a blinkered view of life.  These comments are based on 35 years in the industry, they happen on a daily basis just because you don't see them don't mean they don't happen. 
I've seen platform staff floored, in the last two or three months there have been 2 incidents alone in this area where staff have been hospitalised.
I've seen passengers last week chase, yes chase, after platform staff up a platform at Paddington shouting abuse at them because they were politely informed the train had been cancelled due to no driver.  The member of staff walked away when things started to turn and they were chased.
I've known a incident where a passenger who hasn't got there own way accused a train manager of sexual assault leading to the train manager being arrested and off work whilst it was investigated, luckily CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) cleared him, all because they were reminded they were in a quiet coach.  This allegation was made by teacher!
 
I wouldn't leave colleagues out on the platform to face a torrent of abuse and possible assault, but we don't come to work every day to be on the receiving end of it.  I can happily deal with frustrated customers, that doesn't bother me.  Unfortunately, frustrated passengers can and will turn when they are told something they don't want to hear or they think they know better.
Passengers may understand the guys or girls on the platform are not responsible but you wouldn't think so by the way some of them behave.

As for leaving customers without assistance, rubbish.  There were operational screens and announcements made at Paddington.  You tell a passenger one thing, the plan changes and suddenly you have someone pointing a finger in your face calling you a liar and there you are, another conflict point. "You've just told me........"
Passengers expect to be told exactly when the train will leave, from what platform and exactly how long the delay will be.  None of us know exactly how long a fault will take to fix yet passengers will still tell us we are lying!

[a-driver]

I should say its a minority but it's that small minority day in day out that pummels morale, and once morale is down its down
No incentives or cash will be enough to lift that morale from rock bottom. The only thing that will help is considerably more staff on the ground..... and I think from what I read this morning that could be happening.

[JayMac]

Moderator note: I've taken the liberty of renaming this topic from 'Twyford signalling problems - big delays - 14 July 2014' to what you see now. Better reflects the more than one issue on one day and the wider area affected.

[CLPGMS]

From what I saw on 25th July, station staff were being left to face the public with no access to information about when the next train was likely to arrive.  The screens were only showing trains which "were known to be running".  While I spent an hour at Didcot Parkway waiting for a train to Oxford, the staff were trying to contact Control to see whether anything could be done to divert an Oxford-bound train into the station to pick up passengers.  As it turned out, no such trains were running, other than ones operated by CrossCountry.    We were being told that the next train to Oxford was not expected for over an hour.  Then, to the surprise of the staff, one appeared on the screen and, after a few minutes, the staff cheerfully announced that it had just left Reading.

Similarly, later at Oxford, at least one member of staff was making himself available to passengers waiting on the platform, handing out bottles of water and passing on what information he had.  A cheer went up when he announced that the 2253 to Worcester Shrub Hill was approaching the station (about 35 minutes late).

I think that the main problem on 25th July was train staff being in the wrong places.  Trying to work out what stock and staff was available must have been a nightmare and probably explains why information was not being made available to station staff.   

[BBM]

If I may I'd like to look at the aspect of customer care during disruptions from a slightly different angle.

In 2009 I was the sole carer of my elderly mother who had terminal cancer. For a period of about 4 months until she needed more intensive palliative care, it was agreed between me and Social Services that they would look after her at home until 17.00 every weekday. Then they would leave her on her own until I took over once I arrived home from the 17.06 to TWY^▸ (Twyford station) which would be at about 17.45.

I was concerned about what would happen if I was delayed. Social Services didn't seem very interested by my concern. For a time sunset was at about 18.00-18.30 and I was worried about my Mum being left in the dark. Things got off to a bad start when the 17.06 one day failed to stop at TWY and I had to return from RDG^‡(resolve). But after then, during the whole of the 4 month period, I was never home more than 5 minutes late. Never ever. Not even once.

But imagine how I'd felt at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) last Friday evening if I had to get home to look after someone with no certain prospect of anyone being able to step in at short notice to provide care? This was brought home to me the previous day when the 17.06 was shown as 'Delayed' with no news or announcements, and one of my fellow commuters was going frantic because she needed to pick up her children and the carer she was speaking to on the phone was getting angry because yet again she would be late.

Now, I'm not suggesting that it should be the responsibility alone of customer service staff to deal with these sort of issues. But surely SOMEBODY should be taking care of this sort of thing? Or do people simply accept that it's a risk one takes by being a commuter?

[ChrisB]

The latter unfortunately. Your arrangement would be seen as cutting things very fine these days.

Unfortunately, the relative is yours. Therefore you have to ensure that your arrangements suit every possible delay.

[chrisr_75]

I should say its a minority but it's that small minority day in day out that pummels morale, and once morale is down its down
No incentives or cash will be enough to lift that morale from rock bottom. The only thing that will help is considerably more staff on the ground..... and I think from what I read this morning that could be happening.

Without wishing to trivialise in any way the examples you provide, if morale is so low and this minority causes such immense distress amongst the general workforce, could you tell me/us why are people apparently not leaving the rail industry in their droves?

[a-driver]

I should say its a minority but it's that small minority day in day out that pummels morale, and once morale is down its down
No incentives or cash will be enough to lift that morale from rock bottom. The only thing that will help is considerably more staff on the ground..... and I think from what I read this morning that could be happening.

Without wishing to trivialise in any way the examples you provide, if morale is so low and this minority causes such immense distress amongst the general workforce, could you tell me/us why are people apparently not leaving the rail industry in their droves?

They are.  Within the next 2 months they plan to recruit more drivers despite recently going through a major recruit program.  We are seriously short of drivers this weekend.  We have a huge staff turnover, especially on the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) routes and on gateline and dispatch roles with many actively looking at jobs with other train operators which is a shame, because aside from the fact Network Rail can't provide a reliable infrastructure and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) won't allocate us enough rolling stock, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is probably the best of the 3 TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) I've worked for since privatisation.

[chrisr_75]

I should say its a minority but it's that small minority day in day out that pummels morale, and once morale is down its down
No incentives or cash will be enough to lift that morale from rock bottom. The only thing that will help is considerably more staff on the ground..... and I think from what I read this morning that could be happening.

Without wishing to trivialise in any way the examples you provide, if morale is so low and this minority causes such immense distress amongst the general workforce, could you tell me/us why are people apparently not leaving the rail industry in their droves?

They are.  Within the next 2 months they plan to recruit more drivers despite recently going through a major recruit program.  We are seriously short of drivers this weekend.  We have a huge staff turnover, especially on the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) routes and on gateline and dispatch roles with many actively looking at jobs with other train operators which is a shame, because aside from the fact Network Rail can't provide a reliable infrastructure and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) won't allocate us enough rolling stock, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is probably the best of the 3 TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) I've worked for since privatisation.

Fair enough! I would also add I wasn't intending to be antagonistic, just genuinely curious as when I used to make use of FGW services (I have had enough and now drive) i'd see the same faces all the time, but that was mainly Swansea based crews so the employment market there is probably a little less conducive to easily moving on.

So are people being poached or otherwise leaving to join other TOCs or are they exiting the industry entirely?

Apologies for thread drift...