FGW fail to make the accessibility charts !

[whole diary]

[chuffed]

Dft have published a spreadsheet listing the vehicles owned by the different operators that have been built or refurbished to modern accessibility standards.
Which operator is conspicuous by their absence ? That's right FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ! Why ? Because there are no vehicles listed older than a Class 168 !! Which just goes to show how many 158's 150's 153's and 143's are still trundling around our neck of the woods. I would love to travel on something newer than a 158 !

[thetrout]

Hmmmm. I have mixed views on this.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have gone some way to make modifications to their fleet to make them accessible. But alot more could or needs to be done for fully get there.

The HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for example has an Accessible DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) Compliant Toilet in Coach C with 2x Wheelchair Spaces. Some Coach C's have a smaller toilet which may not fully comply. But it's better than nothing. The Sleeper Stock even has a Disabled Toilet in Seated Accommodation (Coach B)

Yet if you're travelling First Class, you can park your Wheelchair in Coach L but if you want the toilet then... Errr... Yeah... OK.

This made the papers not long ago as a Lady was "Forced to crawl to use the toilet in Coach L" whilst I sympathise to a degree, FGW offered travel on another service at no additional cost. I doubt FGW did that also to spite someone. If your DDA Compliant Set goes out of service. What are you going to do? Cancel it for everyone and p1ss off 500+ Passengers. Or provide a different set and p1ss 3 or 4 passengers off? I'm sorry to say it. But you'd p1ss of the 3 or 4 passengers every time... Harsh but true... (And having a Disability I can see it from both sides. FGW could do no right in that situation IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion))

The Sleeper does not have a Disabled Toilet or Fully Accessible Berth in Sleeping Accomodation. Yet FGW's sister company, First ScotRail does have such luxuries. I reckon the Sleeper is often overlooked here. A little used service in terms of Rolling Stock with just 1 or 2 workings per day. Yet carries a Disabled Toilet in seated accommodation; compared to Class 15x Units working multiple diagrams per day with just a wheelchair stabling space!!

That being said, FGW will accept assistance dogs in Berths for no extra charge and no advance notice is required. Yet ScotRail has been reported to require advance notice for assistance dogs in Berths. In my opinion that is disgusting but I this may well now have changed, as ScotRail took alot of hostile 'complaints' over this.


FGW Class 15x units all have a Wheelchair Space, But that is about it. The Class 158 has a Disabled Toilet, however it is nowhere near compliant in my opinion. To make that facility compliant however I suspect would financially be a total non-starter. The Exterior door would need to move and I can't see FGW doing this. Unless of course they put the Accessible toilet on the opposite side, But this opens up a massive redesign of the Class 158.

My opinion on this is that if it was possible, FGW may have done this during the refurbishment. As the legislation was always going to become compulsory.

Again that all being said. Northern have refitted their Class 150 with very spacious Disabled Accessible Toilets which is seen as welcome in my opinion. The toilets working or not is an entirely different subject however. Also Evershot have redesigned a Class 321 which does carry a fully compliant Disabled Toilet.

So I can't see that FGW would turn around and say "Making all trains on our fleet fully accessible is not possible" because it's clear from current tried and tested projects that it IS possible.

For heavens sake there is even a Mk2^▸ (Mark 2 coach) BSO^▸ (Brake Standard Open (carriage)) running around with a Disabled Lavvy in it which FGW were using on CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) - TAU^» (Taunton - next trains) runs a couple of years back

(Cardiff Central - Taunton)


Only thing however I think FGW are missing out on by putting the wheelchair space in Coach C? What if that person wants to go to the Buffet for some water or a cup of tea?? Kind of unfair in my opinion

[Network SouthEast]

The only FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trains that are currently compliant with the PRM^▸ (Persons with Reduced Mobility) TSI regulations are the class 180s. Nothing else in the fleet complies.

But that's changing.

The Turbo and Sprinter overhauls which are about to happen will include all required mods (including toilets) to bring them in to line with the PRM TSI requirements. 

The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are expected to be retired by the 31/12/19 deadline so won't have these modifications.

[John R]

The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are expected to be retired by the 31/12/19 deadline so won't have these modifications.

What will be running to Devon and Cornwall then?

[ellendune]

The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are expected to be retired by the 31/12/19 deadline so won't have these modifications.

What will be running to Devon and Cornwall then?

I think NSE^▸ (Network South East) should have said - HST were all expected to have been replaced ..

When the final IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) programme was announced there were no longer covering trains to Devon & Cornwall.  So only that point did FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have any reason to start thinking about what to do about HSTs

[Southern Stag]

The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are expected to be retired by the 31/12/19 deadline so won't have these modifications.

What will be running to Devon and Cornwall then?

There are still several options for Devon and Cornwall; life-extending HSTs, a follow on order for more IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) or Class 222s displaced from the Midland Main Line when it is electrified.

[Rhydgaled]

The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are expected to be retired by the 31/12/19 deadline so won't have these modifications.

What will be running to Devon and Cornwall then?

There are still several options for Devon and Cornwall; life-extending HSTs, a follow on order for more IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) or Class 222s displaced from the Midland Main Line when it is electrified.

The recent franchise consultation included a map with 1tph to Plymouth labeled 'HST' where almost everything else was labeled either 9-car 'electric' or 5-car 'bi-mode' IEP. HST is of course a rather generic term, but I assume they mean IC125s since they are often refered to as HSTs.