GroupSave changes from May 2014

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Having heard rumours of a change in the discount structure for GroupSave from May 18th 2014 I asked FGW^▸ (First Great Western) via Twitter if there were to be changes. What I'd heard is that the discount will change to be 1/3 off pr person for groups of three four or five travelling together. Instead of the current three or four for the price of two.

My tweet to FGW was forwarded to National Rail Enquiries who responded thus:

@FGW @JustinMcAree Hi there,  there will be changes to the GroupSave in May but we do not have the full details at the moment.

https://twitter.com/nationalrailenq/status/458227503698804736

Could be a right pain for people such as Community Rail Partnerships who have produced material advertising GroupSave discounts, only to find there will be changes to the validity/discount structure.

[grahame]

I hadn't heard and we're just doing a literature run ...

So on a 10 pound fare, current prices:
  10, 20, 20, 20, 30, 40, 40, 40 pounds for 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 or 8 people
what you're suggesting may happen:
  10, 20, 20, 26.66, 33.33, 40, 46.66, 53.33 and pounds for 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 or 8 people

So that's a rise of 33% in what a group of 4 or 8 would pay, and a rise of 11% in what five would pay, a rise of 16% for a group of 7 and a rise of . And (what a surprise) nothing goes lower.

Need to check literature / ask before print run.  And if true, looks like Santa's costs will inflate by a third in December and mean he'll struggle to break even unless he passes the rises on.

[JayMac]

Whilst NRE^‡(resolve) have confirmed there will be a change, I only have unconfirmed rumours of the specifics. I'll keep my eye on this one though, and as soon as I hear/find anything concrete I'll post.

Should anyone else know the details then do please post, or if you are staff and would rather not post publicly, then PM me.

[ChrisB]

NRE^‡(resolve) are lying - they must have details agreed by now, otherwise publicity won't be ready....less than a month away??

[JayMac]

I suspect the dead hand of ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here). Where things move at a glacial pace. All it takes is one TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to disagree on the wording and delays in releasing the information occur.

However, fares changes should be in systems 4 weeks ahead of the 'go live'. Four weeks out would've been yesterday, but as this weekend has included two public holidays, systems may not be updated until the middle of the week ahead.

I've also heard rumours of a fare increase that could affect me, but again I can't get a straight answer at the moment.

[SDS]

There has been a big brief about it in the weekly retail circular, (3 ish pages long)

To make it simple, its now a flat 34% discount on any groups that have 3 people or more in them.

GroupSave Changes ^ From Sunday 18 May 2014
From Sunday 18 May 2014, GroupSave will be simplified to a 34% discount on the adult fare and extended to groups of 3 to 9 people travelling together on participating train company (TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)) services.
 
All tickets purchased up to and including 17 May 2014 for groups of 3 or 4 people travelling together on any date of travel (including travel on or after 18 May) should be issued with the existing GroupSave 3 (GS3), GroupSave 4 (GS4) and GroupSave Child for ^1 (GSC) discounts.
 
All tickets sold with the existing GS3, GS4 and GSC discounts for travel on or after 18 May 2014 are still valid for travel.
 
All tickets purchased on or after 18 May 2014 should be issued with the new GroupSave (GS3) discount.
 
Changes from 18 May 2014
 
GroupSave (GS3)
^ GS3 discount status code will be retained
^ Description will change to GroupSave
^ 34% discount on adult fares
^ Group size will change to 3 to 9 adults
^ Legend printed on the ticket will change to GSV
 
GroupSave 4 (GS4) & GroupSave Child for ^1 (GSC)
^ No longer valid for sale from Sunday 18 May 2014
^ GS4 and GSC may still be visible in retail systems ^ this is only to ensure that tickets sold on or
before 17 May for travel on or after 18 May can be collected via Ticket on Departure.
 
Validity
There is no change to the ticket types that the GroupSave discount applies to.
 
Group Size
GroupSave discounts will be valid for groups of 3 to 9 adults travelling together.
 
Where flat fares for accompanying children are offered by a TOC, these can be issued along with GroupSave discounted Off-Peak tickets for adult groups of 3 or more people. Where there is no flat fare for children the usual child fare is payable.
 
As per the current GroupSave offer, where a group size of 2 adults + 1 child or 1 adult + 2 children are travelling together and GroupSave discounted tickets offers the best value fare for their journey, the children in the group can be issued an adult discounted ticket in order to obtain the GroupSave discount for the whole group. Children who are included in a group to reach the minimum GroupSave group size of 3, should not be issued with a Child flat fare.
 
Please be aware that where Child flat fares are offered and the group size is 1 adult + 2 children, the best value fare for their journey may be a full price Adult fare + two Child flat fares.
 
Time Restrictions
GroupSave discounted tickets have the same restrictions as the corresponding non-discounted ticket.
 
If the ticket has no morning restriction, then travel is not permitted before 09:30 Mondays to Fridays (excluding Public Holidays). See GroupSave section of Knowledgebase for details.
 
Date Restrictions
Any date restrictions on the GroupSave discount are detailed in the GroupSave Calendar. See GroupSave section of Knowledgebase for details.
 
Participating TOCs
There is no change to the participating train companies:
 
^ Abellio Greater Anglia
^ c2c
^ Chiltern
^ First Capital Connect
^ First Great Western
^ London Midland
^ London Overground
^ Southeastern
^ Southern
^ South West Trains
 
Issuing discounted tickets
Ticket issuing information is specific to your TIS^‡(resolve). Contact your TOC Retail Support Team as required.
 
Refunds
Usual refund arrangements apply. See the Refunds section of Knowledgebase for the relevant procedure. For local instructions contact your TOC Retail Support Team.
 
Excess Tickets
A minimum of 3 people travelling together is required for GroupSave discounted tickets to be valid for travel. Usual excess fare arrangements apply. See the Excess Fares section of Knowledgebase for the relevant procedure. For local instructions contact your TOC Retail Support Team.
 
Further Notes
East Midlands Trains and ScotRail offer GroupSave ticket types ^ GR3, GR4 and GR5 ^ for specific journeys on their routes. To issue GroupSave tickets for travel on East Midlands Trains or ScotRail services, select the relevant ticket type and not the GroupSave discount code.
 
[Name redacted]
ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) [Job title redacted] ^ [phone redacted]

[grahame]

NRE^‡(resolve) are lying - they must have details agreed by now, otherwise publicity won't be ready....less than a month away??

Always worth talking to the horse.    From the horse's mouth ...

I have just spoken with National Rail Enquiries, asking for the fare for Sunday 25th May from Melksham to Weymouth for the day, and been quoted 33.00.   I was reminded that all four passengers must travel together, and it was confirmed that I can buy the ticket on the day at that price.   If there is indeed a change, it looks like it's not the one suggested.

There has been a big brief about it in the weekly retail circular, (3 ish pages long)

To make it simple, its now a flat 34% discount on any groups that have 3 people or more in them.

I was doing my checks / posting as you posted this.   Seems there's some confusion around.  Going to read now ...

[SDS]

NRE^‡(resolve) are lying - they must have details agreed by now, otherwise publicity won't be ready....less than a month away??

Always worth talking to the horse.    From the horse's mouth ...

I have just spoken with National Rail Enquiries, asking for the fare for Sunday 25th May from Melksham to Weymouth for the day, and been quoted 33.00.   I was reminded that all four passengers must travel together, and it was confirmed that I can buy the ticket on the day at that price.   If there is indeed a change, it looks like it's not the one suggested.

There has been a big brief about it in the weekly retail circular, (3 ish pages long)

To make it simple, its now a flat 34% discount on any groups that have 3 people or more in them.

I was doing my checks / posting as you posted this.   Seems there's some confusion around.  Going to read now ...

Thats directly from ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here), so I guess the information has not filtered through to mumbai yet. I could give you the contact who sent it, but Id rather not post it on a public forum.

[Brucey]

GroupSave (GS3)
^ GS3 discount status code will be retained
^ Description will change to GroupSave
^ 34% discount on adult fares
^ Group size will change to 3 to 9 adults
^ Legend printed on the ticket will change to GSV

The six to nine size groups seem rather pointless under the new scheme as these group sizes can be created using combinations of smaller groups at the same fare.  Rather than the current system where using a group of four gives a greater discount than a group of three.

[grahame]

Thats directly from ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here), so I guess the information has not filtered through to mumbai yet. I could give you the contact who sent it, but Id rather not post it on a public forum.

I appreciate it has the ring of logic about it.   I'm a bit confused on the add on fares for children and going to have a fresh look in the morning.

[paul7575]

I was hoping that the remaining TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) might now take this new version of Groupsave, given that the discount is now basically the same as any typical adult railcard...

Paul

[JayMac]

Thanks to SDS for clarifying this with that retail brief from ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here). One pint of your beverage of choice in the bank. (Terms and Conditions apply  )

So, as suspected, an increase in price for groups of 4 or more (unless there's exactly 6 of you). Did we really expect anything less from ATOC?

No doubt, when the information is made officially public it'll be dressed up as simplification/bringing into line with Railcards, and other such guff. Reality is a price increase for many.

[bobm]

I was hoping that the remaining TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) might now take this new version of Groupsave, given that the discount is now basically the same as any typical adult railcard...

Paul

Perhaps other TOCs may join at a later date.  For a while there are going to be "old" and "new" Groupsave type tickets in circulation - it would even more confusing if some were valid on some TOCs but not others simply because of the date they were bought on.

[grahame]

What the effect of a change from "3 or 4 adults in a group travel for the price of 2, children travel for a pound each" to "adults in groups of 3 or more get a 34% discount; children pay half fares" would be.

Number of children along the top.  Adults down the side.  Fare of 100 pounds for adults (a high fare, I know, but makes it easier to see percentages! ... Paddington to Newquay is 103 super off peak return as a near example)



Illustrative example shows how a child can travel on an "any age" ticket (a.k.a. adult ticket) to take advantage of Groupsave ... the arrow in my example, with 2 adults and 2 children, reduces a non-groupsave price of 300 pounds in both old and new systems to 201 pounds (until changeover) or to 248 pounds (after changeover)

I have not added a third row in each section to show what the fare would be without a group discount - as an example, 3 adults at 100 pounds plus 2 children at 50 pounds would cost 400 pounds without any group save, 298 pounds under the suggested new system, and 202 pounds under the current system. So it's still a significant saving for those travelling as part of a group.

[ChrisB]

fyi - Chiltern arenow offering *both* the old & new Groupsave offering...

Chiltern Railways (@chilternrailway)

21/05/2014 13:38

@Aventra345001 We are continuing to offer this and also will offer the new deal. E