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Author Topic: 'Hedge fund manager in ^42,550 train fare dodge' - ongoing discussion  (Read 51288 times)
Southern Stag
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« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2014, 18:31:09 »

It shows up SouthEastern for their lax ticket checks....and him for not getting the London end right (all he had to do was keep a Zone 1 season (to get him in/out at Cannon Street without flagging up a max fare deduction) on his Oyster (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) & chances are he'd still be doing it....
That would probably have been noticed too. If you only ever touch in/out at Cannon Street it suggests some kind of suspicious behaviour. Even with a Travelcard on Oyster you are still meant to to touch in and out on every journey.

Although impractical (impossible??) on a boundary zone season ticket to touch in/out at boundary. What you're meant to do and can do are two different things here.
Indeed. That would be perfectly valid. If however you're oyster history was flagged up as suspicious and you were found to be using a boundary zone season ticket you wouldn't be in trouble. If you have an Oyster season, don't touch in, and are found outside the zones of validity for your season then you will be liable for a penalty fare or prosecution.

And I don't believe you pick up a max fare 'fine' either?
There would be no maximum fare payable. It could potentially draw suspicion on you though. Fine if you are using your ticket correctly, but if you are just using oyster to get through the barriers at London but not paying for a ticket into the country then you risk getting caught. If the gentleman in this case had just bought a Z1 Oyster season rather than paying the maximum fare he still may have been caught.
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2014, 19:03:55 »

My expectation is that the fare-dodger will be outed by their fellow-commuters from Stonegate.

Whether they get to be named to the outside world might depend on how much they choose to donate to (say) the Stonegate Church Roof Restoration Fund. I would've thought a generous donation of (say) ^42,550 might be enough.
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SDS
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« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2014, 19:56:51 »

My expectation is that the fare-dodger will be outed by their fellow-commuters from Stonegate.

Whether they get to be named to the outside world might depend on how much they choose to donate to (say) the Stonegate Church Roof Restoration Fund. I would've thought a generous donation of (say) ^42,550 might be enough.

Plus a suggested penalty donation of 10% on top.
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ellendune
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« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2014, 20:24:08 »

How many people in Stonegate work for Hedge funds. If I was a HR (Human Resources) manager at a Hedge Fund and wanted to protect the companies reputation (assuming they consider a hedge fund has a reputation worth protecting) then I would be looking through the files to see if I had any employees who commute from Stonegate and if I found any I might ask some searching questions.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2014, 21:07:15 »

How many people commute from Stonegate that know who this individual is? And if so, who they work for?

No reputation to protect there, methinks
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ChrisB
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« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2014, 10:01:42 »

Quote
There's no injunction on his name....SouthEastern agreed to accept the money & not to name him. Anyone within that company that does will lose their job - enough of a threat to keep them quiet. Ditto anyone with the BTP (British Transport Police) that might have been involved.

Without sound provocative or rude. That is a rather ignorant and very naive way to look at it. There are so many different variables where his name could come out it's impossible to name them all.

But if Edward Snowdon or Bradley Manning* didn't mind losing their jobs... And someone in Southeastern decided he should be named because (as seems to be general views on this forum) he should have been prosecuted. Then I can't see a threat of losing your job as a 'credible' one. (If that's the right word)

Really?

Personally, what those two you named released were slightly more important to the citizens of this world that the paltry name of a fare dodger! :-)
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thetrout
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« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2014, 18:37:45 »

Really?

Personally, what those two you named released were slightly more important to the citizens of this world that the paltry name of a fare dodger! :-)

I quite agree, which is why I used it as an excellent example... The consequences those two I named face vs. Someone at Southeastern naming the individual and facing their disciplinary. The levels of "breach of contract" couldn't been any more different. What I was trying to show was that some people want and will take the risk and brace themselves for the inevitable storm. I guess it comes down to how loyal someone is to their employer... My understanding is that morale is very low at Southeastern.

It seems several posters have seen my line of thought... How many people who live in Stonegate have the odd ^40k lying around? How many of those people then use a train into Cannon Street every day? What are the closest Hedge Fund Organisations near to Cannon Street. You'd break it down block by block, piece by piece. If a competitor really wanted to find out, It wouldn't be too hard to do.
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John R
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« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2014, 18:51:09 »

How many people who live in Stonegate have the odd ^40k lying around?

Probably more than you might imagine.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2014, 18:55:46 »

The majority, I would have thought - its a *very* well to do area....McCartney isn't far away, for example.
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John R
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« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2014, 19:09:33 »

I think this topic has run its course. Maybe we should let it be?
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thetrout
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« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2014, 20:34:55 »

I think this topic has run its course. Maybe we should let it be?

I would be ok with that; I was initially apprehensive about commenting in this thread for fear of it turning into a points scoring argument with mole hills for mountains. Which I didn't want to start up. Thanks all, for taking my comments in good faith and for some interesting discussion Smiley

(Just realised that last part sounds really sarcastic... I've played with how to word it for 5 minutes now and still can't think of a better way to word it. So I'll just say, It's not sarcastic at all so please don't take it that way Smiley )
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2014, 23:28:22 »

With thanks to everyone who has contributed to this interesting discussion, I'm now going to act on the suggestions of the two most recent posters, and lock the topic.

However, if any new facts emerge, we always have the option of reopening ...  Wink
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« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2014, 11:59:49 »

A piece in Passenger Transport magazine that makes interesting reading....

Quote
Alex Warner believes that the well-publicised case of the hedge fund manager who dodged paying ^42,550 in train fares is the tip of the iceberg

Transport industry news bulletins can be predictable ^ the usual guff around franchise awards or extensions, ^jam tomorrow^ station upgrades, big investments, gravy train salaries and big fat fare hikes, you know the score, same-old, same-old, year-on-year. However, one story that stands out from this year^s dross involved my beloved South Eastern Trains ^ playground of my youth and the theatre of my work dreams during the mid-noughties. Last month, there was the story of the hedge fund manager from Stonegate who paid South Eastern back ^42,550 for his five years of systematic fare evasion in return for them protecting his anonymity.

Sadly, South Eastern^s not unreasonable decision to take the money and keep the identity of the fraudster under wraps gave the media the opportunity to somehow make them out to be more crooked amongst the sanctimonious media moralists than the deceit that perpetrated this story. Poor South Eastern could do no right.

The Stonegate story did, however, reinforce my assertion that you cannot dumb-down revenue protection and it needs to be considered by train operators as a specialist, data-driven resource, not just reliant on high-profile gateline staff acting as manual barriers. From my experience, South Eastern^s revenue protection team has always been top drawer, with the very best skill-set, motivation and leadership, supported by a prosecutions department the envy of most TOCs (Train Operating Company). However, catching the siphoning snake from Stonegate feels like preventing a terrorist attack ^ you try and convince yourself that robust, intelligence-led operations are providing ongoing protection, but invariably it is only by stumbling across something suspicious, or an error by the criminal, that something alarming is uncovered, exposing the ultimate inadequacy of our defences. If it is as easy as keeping your head down and touching out on an Oyster (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) reader, how many Stonegate situations are occurring daily across the rail network?

The story goes that the persistent fraud only emerged when the thieving scum was caught out on one journey and then someone at South Eastern had the nous to notice that he soon after purchased a season ticket. That same employee, presumably, decided to track him down and determine what he^d been doing for the previous five years. Worryingly, all this ensued despite South Eastern having decent front-foot protections in place anyway. One legacy of our stewardship of the South Eastern franchise, post-Connex, was to transform the visibility and effectiveness of the conductors, something the Go-Ahead Group has continued.

Disconcertingly, though, despite South Eastern^s revenue protection team^s prowess, it takes an exceptional star within its ranks to uncover Stonegate-style scandals. Across the whole of Britain^s rail network, there probably are only a handful of Poirots and Marples capable of, and determined to, uncover such sophisticated fraud. Most TOCs undertake ^revenue at risk^ surveys which are unscientific and invariably based on rough averages pertaining to the number of folk found without a ticket during a station block or walk through a train, divided by the average fare evaded (diluted because it is invariably based on swallowing the evader^s claim that s/he boarded at the most recent station!). To what extent does a ^Stonegate^ skew the figures, how can the figures factor in fraud on a scale such as this? Should an arbitrary sensitivity be applied? Based on the percentage of determined fraudsters per population head, then there must be Stonegate scenarios being replicated or surpassed every day across the rail network?

To test my doomsday scenario, I have recently indulged in some ^fare evasion^. Before you send the heavy mob round my door, I did pay my fare, but pretended that I hadn^t, or in one instance accidentally purchased the wrong ticket. The results were alarming. Returning on separate trips from Burton-on-Trent and Leeds to Shepperton, I used the return portion of previously used, but within date, tickets, rather than the ones I had purchased for these specific journeys. Despite having unprofessional hand-written squiggles on them, no one batted an eyelid and I got through the gateline at Waterloo by waving them at disinterested employees. When I told a few folk ^ decent, well paid, white collar execs, with tickets bought on expenses ^ they responded with incredulity: ^You didn^t work that out? Everyone tries that on and pulls it off!^

A few days later, I inadvertently beat the system. Mistakenly, my PA (Public Address) booked me a Day Travelcard for 5th, instead of 4th, April. So, I spent the day cavorting round London with the next day^s ticket, bemused why gates kept going into ^seek assistance^ mode, but still ushered through by staff and with conductors turning a blind eye. It was only after my sixth journey that I realised the error and bought a new ticket.

Other irregularities can be achieved with intent ^ sometimes. I^ve become more brazen lately. Keeping my valid ticket in my pocket, I sneaked through the gates behind another customer at St John^s Wood a few Mondays ago, under the noses of staff, and repeated the feat at Waterloo, Paddington and Kingston in SWT (South West Trains)^s backyard, all in the space of a couple of hours.

Then there^s the Railcard ^fiddle^ apart from South West Trains at Waterloo, it^s almost unheard of for TOCs to programme their gates so they flag-up tickets purchased with railcards, for closer inspection ^ 34 times I^ve used my Network Railcard in the past year, purchasing tickets from a machine, not once has the card left my wallet. Meanwhile, SWT^s great value Super Off Peak ticket is an even bigger bargain because although it^s not valid on evening peak journeys from London, I^ve never come across or heard of anyone who has been challenged for travelling at this time.

If Stonegate occurred where ticket inspection is habitually ensuing, then there^s no hope for the swathes of the network where it doesn^t. Many operators^ approach isn^t particularly rounded, often a case of either
 on-train or at the station, but rarely in juxtaposition.

Anecdotal evidence suggests more open gates at franchises approaching the demotivating fag-end of their franchise term or in the throes of combative extension negotiations, for whatever reason (at some point, I^ll promise to deliver some stunning consultancy research to reinforce this suspicion). Others, such as East Coast, appear to unashamedly open their gates at Kings Cross because they are confident in the vigilance of their conductors. This can be an astute, cost efficient move ^ albeit I travelled to Peterborough and back last week without an inspection.

The nadir was reached, however, on Maundy Thursday. I encountered an abrupt Virgin employee at Liverpool Lime Street reacting with suspicion to my questions around departures and Wi-Fi in their ^Lounge^. Outside the desk in which he was rooted, an orderly queue had formed, funnelling through a narrow entrance onto the London-bound platform, complete with notices advising of likely ticket inspections. The availability of the member of staff in close proximity, coupled with the physical set-up of the entrance onto the train and customers who by the nature in which they took the decision to queue suggested an expectation for some kind of ticket check. All these factors were willing Virgin to protect their revenue effectively and with consummate ease. Nothing happened, though ^ not before, during or after our journey. Thrice the cleaners went through the train anxiously clearing rubbish and not once did a conductor appear. On arrival at Euston, instead of checks, a group of Virgin staff turned their backs on customers in animated conversation amongst themselves and with arms draped around each other in a scene more resplendent of an under-18s disco than a high profile, flagship railway station.

So, my quick and dirty litmus test reinforces fears that ^Stonegate-gate^ is the tip of the iceberg. If the rich are fiddling it big time, let alone the poor and needy, then we^re stuffed. Throw in some internal fraud (don^t kid yourself it isn^t happening, we all know it is) and the railway has a monumental problem. It^s partly about the leadership of train companies. How often do you see the MDs and their senior bods pacing trains and gatelines checking tickets, or throwing the HQ (Headquarters) pen-pushers out onto the network for ^call to arms^, Revenue Protection Days? In my glory years, I witnessed truly great leaders like Michael Holden and David Franks unleashing their ticket stamps every time they set half a foot on their manor ^ day, night and at weekends. They sent clear signals to staff and customers that management was deadly serious about ticketless travel.

The media described the Stonegate scandal as the largest fare evasion of all time and it should have provided a wake-up call to an industry in stone-faced denial. Let^s hope so, but for now, I^ll bet you my accidentally twice-used return ticket from Leeds to Shepperton that there are far more whopping hoists ensuing out there ^ on your train home, all around you even, in the slums and in the shires ^ widespread looting of an unimaginable magnitude. God help us all.
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grahame
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« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2014, 12:50:38 »

A piece in Passenger Transport magazine that makes interesting reading....

ChrisB - that's fascinating.   But I'm torn in two directions ... On one hand there is a really good general discussion to be had, but on the other hand did Chris from Nailsea re-open the locked topic:

With thanks to everyone who has contributed to this interesting discussion, I'm now going to act on the suggestions of the two most recent posters, and lock the topic.

However, if any new facts emerge, we always have the option of reopening ...  Wink

I'm going to quote your post again ChrisB, then split it off into a separate topic for general discussion, and lock this Stonegate-oriented thread.



Edit to add (next morning) ... I now understand that thread was unlocked by CfN on request from ChrisB. CfN - like me - saw huge merit in continuing the discussion in a general sense; sorry about my confusion on that.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 05:33:14 by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2014, 13:04:37 »

New thread is at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13947.0 which is in "frequent posters".   Whilst the article that ChrisB has posted is pubished elsewhere, we may find that we want to discuss things deeper ...
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