Whats in the Box????

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

I'm in agreement with ChrisB - there will probably be isolated cases of there not being enough seats, but for the vast majority of trains it will just mean you get to make friends on your table of four.  That in itself might be enough to dissuade the odd person from travelling, or to downgrad to Standard Class, but the overall good of providing more standard class seats will help (certainly not solve) the capacity crisis between Reading and Paddington in the peaks and also on the incredibly busy weekend services heading to/from the South West and South Wales.  One of the most frequent comments made to me by friends who commute/use FGW^▸ (First Great Western) regularly, but have no connection with the industry, is that First Class takes up far too much of the train in comparison with Standard Class. 

A key question for me, is will this result in a reconfigure of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) layouts to provide less First Class seating than has originally been suggested?  After all, these refreshed HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets will largely be gone within five years anyway.

[Chris from Nailsea]

I'm in agreement with ChrisB - there will probably be isolated cases of there not being enough seats, but for the vast majority of trains it will just mean you get to make friends on your table of four.  That in itself might be enough to dissuade the odd person from travelling, or to downgrad to Standard Class, but the overall good of providing more standard class seats will help (certainly not solve) the capacity crisis between Reading and Paddington in the peaks and also on the incredibly busy weekend services heading to/from the South West and South Wales.  One of the most frequent comments made to me by friends who commute/use FGW^▸ (First Great Western) regularly, but have no connection with the industry, is that First Class takes up far too much of the train in comparison with Standard Class.

Posting personally in this instance, and based on comments that I have received from family and friends who know of my interest in the railways - I concur with IndustryInsider's conclusion. 

[John R]

I'm sure that the comments received by II and CfN are representative of generally held views about 1st class. However, any industry should be wary of taking action purely because of people's perceptions of a situation, when the hard facts may suggest a different course is more appropriate.

As an example, HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s are very lightly loaded in 1st west of Bristol, even in the peak, so I can see why people in that area may wonder why there is a first class at all. But the same service is heavily loaded beyond Swindon an hour later. Similarly, off peak sees (generally) light use of first, but the same trains will also have spare seats in standard, so there isn't actually a problem. Yet it won't stop someone, seeing a nearly empty first at 11am and saying,"it's a waste".

I'm sure that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have done their research in terms of passenger counts, and set out the impact to DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), both in terms of pure financial and potential adverse reaction. I suspect the view is that the relatively few cases where first passengers will be unable to get a seat is worth the wider benefit and cost (particularly from a political perspective in the run up to a general election).

Will there actually be any compensation (refund of the difference in cost) in such circumstances? I can't see that the Conditions of Carriage specify it, as it only describes the position where 1st class is "not available", which I would take to be not present at all.





   

[JayMac]

Will there actually be any compensation (refund of the difference in cost) in such circumstances? I can't see that the Conditions of Carriage specify it, as it only describes the position where 1st class is "not available", which I would take to be not present at all.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s Passenger Charter covers this:

If you hold a First Class ticket and there are no seats available we will offer compensation in  National Rail Travel Vouchers or as an e-voucher credit to your online FGW account, based on the cost of your ticket. This will be the difference between the corresponding First and Standard Class ticket and for Season Ticket holders we will work out the proportional daily rate* for the affected journey. To claim please contact our Customer Relations team with your journey details and your original ticket / Season Ticket details.
 
* for precise information about the proportional daily rate for your season ticket, please contact our Customer Relations Team.

[Umberleigh]

Removing, what - 20 seats - from peak 1st class won't, IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), mean standing....just that pax will have to sit in every seat, rather than every other. That, plus a reduction in Advance 1st tickets, should mean everyone will have a seat available

True, but hundreds of thousands of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) customers have become used to the cheap, 1st off-peak advance fares, that have been available since the 1990s.

There are going to be more than a few disgruntled people when these fares disappear. Perhaps they will downgrade to Standard, or maybe they will drive, or fly from Newquay or Exeter to London City Airport (coming soon).

[ChrisB]

In the bigger picture, is a move to air a problem?

[Red Squirrel]

In the bigger picture, is a move to air a problem?

Probably not, if you don't have kids and don't care whether Earth is capable of supporting human life in the future...

[sprinterguard]

In the bigger picture, is a move to air a problem?

Probably not, if you don't have kids and don't care whether Earth is capable of supporting human life in the future...

We'll all be dead before it's a problem.

[ellendune]

In the bigger picture, is a move to air a problem?

Probably not, if you don't have kids and don't care whether Earth is capable of supporting human life in the future...

We'll all be dead before it's a problem.

So you don't have children or grandchildren then.

[Cynthia]

As Al Gore pointed out, green issues are an Inconvenient Truth, and I'm sure many people get bored with the global warming flag being flown in their faces, but I do have children, and grandchildren, and hope to see a cleaner, more stable environment in which they can flourish, long after I'm dead.

[bobm]

The box appears to have disappeared.

Did any member of the general public get to see the contents?

[Umberleigh]

In the bigger picture, is a move to air a problem?

Probably not, if you don't have kids and don't care whether Earth is capable of supporting human life in the future...

Well if it's a matter of life or death, why not give Devon and Cornwall an electrified high speed line with extra capacity built in? That'll blow air out of the picture, and much better for the environment that diesel trains...

If the Government won't invest in green options you can't blame the people for choosing the best available options.

[TonyK]

In the bigger picture, is a move to air a problem?

Probably not, if you don't have kids and don't care whether Earth is capable of supporting human life in the future...

I'm looking forward to taking my grandchildren on a jolly flight around the Cotswolds when they are old enough to appreciate it.

Modern jets compare favourably with a car with only one person on board in terms of CO₂ emissions. Electric trains win hands down.

[JayMac]

The box appears to have disappeared.

Did any member of the general public get to see the contents?

I asked on Facebook. Here's the reply:

We're sorry you didn't get to see inside the pink box, the box was mainly there for our staff and stakeholders to see.

The contents of the box shows our plans for the new style first class environment.

We are looking to bring the box back but we do not currently have a date for this. We will announce when we do though.

[Timmer]

Very strange then that it was put in such a public place.