Provision for onward travel if your connection is missed

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Rhydgaled; the tale in quotes is enough to put many people off public transport!  Perhaps particularly lone female travellers.  A sense of vulnerability is enough to make you reach for the car keys

Indeed, but I hasten to add that you are safe from such problems if the only public transport you are using is the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail network. I would however like to know just how far rail's 'get you there' guarantee goes, does it apply only if you have missed the last train of the day? Or does a missed connection which leaves you unable to proceed towards your destination for over two hours also require the operator responsible to provide a taxi?

As I understand it, just to the end of the rail journey. A missed bus connection - or indeed flight - is your responsibility. The latter is the reason why rail companies won't be forced to 'get you there' whichever onward transportation you choose. Conversely, shouldn't bus companies who run late & you miss your Advance train booking, get you there too?

[Rhydgaled]

As I understand it, just to the end of the rail journey. A missed bus connection - or indeed flight - is your responsibility.

I know that, sorry I can't have made it clear enough.

What I don't know is, if you miss your planned train connection (due to an ealier delayed train) and there is another train later the same day (but not for several hours), does the train operator have to provide a taxi or do you have to wait hours for that next train? In other words, how long does your wait have to be before they have to get you a taxi?

Conversely, shouldn't bus companies who run late & you miss your Advance train booking, get you there too?

Indeed they should, if rail companies were also required to provide alternative transport should you miss the bus due to the train being late (which they aren't). This is exactly the sort of thing I am suggesting to try and help reverse the 'bus decline'. Rail use is growing, rather than declining, so better bus-rail integration should help buses out.

If the official bus-rail connection time was 15 minutes (10 minutes PPM^‡(resolve) lateness plus five minutes to get from train to bus) I suspect the bus companies wouldn't cause many missed connections and hence wouldn't have to pay for taxis very often.

[ChrisB]

There is nothing set out in the regulations that states *when* taxis/alternative transport *has* to be provided. Just that they *have* to get you to your final (rail) destination. I suspect fares would have to rise to cover the increased costs were there to be a maximum wait for the next train, for example.

I can't ever see the regulations including a maximum wait.

It's down to your persuasiveness and the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff to get you moving sooner than the next train....the longer the wait / shorter the distance, in my experience, the easier to persuade staff that you need alternative transport. For example, I'd be disappointed to wait longer than two hours if that's the next train - but harder definitely if the station operator and the train provider aren't the same!

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) won't. full stop. Unless it's the last connection of the day you miss, then they're very good.

Don't think you'll ever see this applied to buses though. It'll more likely put more routes out of business as their costs will undoubtedly rise. Road accidents are more frequent than rail ones, for example. And the traffic....!!

[JayMac]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) are hardly ever in a position to actually arrange taxis. They do not operate any stations and it is, in the vast majority of cases, station staff at the station where you are stranded that make the decision.

Following late arriving CrossCountry services at Bristol Temple Meads, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have arranged taxis for me. Ultimately, XC pay for that taxi.

[ChrisB]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) do, but only after gaining authorisation from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)). And they never give it, other than for late-night (usually last connection gone) taxis....

[JayMac]

Never had a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) member of staff 'gain authorisation'. They've just filled out the chit with details of the incoming delayed service and given me my copy to hand to the cabbie.

[ChrisB]

hmmm - you haven't been watching closely enough....

[JayMac]

I can quite clearly see what is happening thanks. Two occasions in the last year where I'd arrived on a heavily delayed XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service and had missed potential connections. The Customer Information office was opened at Bristol Temple Meads for the DSM to retrieve to taxi chit book. He filled out the chits in my presence and gave them to me.

At no point was there any contact with CrossCountry before the chit was handed to me. On both occasions the chit clearly had the headcode of the delayed XC service entered in the relevant fields.

I pay attention to such things. I was there ChrisB. You weren't.

[ChrisB]

In which case, it was so heavily delayed that Bristol had obtained authorisation prior to its arrival.##I have seen XCs^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) instructions to other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff.

[Super Guard]

In which case, it was so heavily delayed that Bristol had obtained authorisation prior to its arrival.##I have seen XCs^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) instructions to other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff.

From personal experience having worked on the station side of things, XC will not pay out for taxi's without an authorisation number.

This doesn't stop a station organising a taxi, but if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) later ask for authorisation and XC decline, then the bill is landing on FGW's desk.  We would check the whole journey the customer had made on TRUST^▸ (Train Running System TOPS) to verify it was the XC train that caused the mis-connect and not another TOC, but XC would want to know.

(To add, XC never once turned down a request when it came to missing the last service of the day).

[IndustryInsider]

Never had a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) member of staff 'gain authorisation'. They've just filled out the chit with details of the incoming delayed service and given me my copy to hand to the cabbie.

hmmm - you haven't been watching closely enough....

Not sure if it's still the case, but XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) (in the days when it was a Virgin franchise) used to allow taxis to be authorised by staff without gaining authority from their control office as long as the agreed fare didn't exceed a certain amount and other guidelines were followed.  Their control was getting so many calls when the service was disrupted that it was deemed an inefficient practice for staff at stations to phone up for every instance - indeed sometimes they couldn't get through at all!

[SDS]

FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) generally have an unwritten rule of 2 hours delay before they will even entertain the idea of taxis.

I do remember once when travelling back from Manchester Pic back home, that some idiot lorry driver decided to take on a railway bridge. Last connection of the night via central trains. I did have to stand my ground but a taxi was duly authorised despite me requesting a hotel for the night and would have prob been cheaper for the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).

Other times I have been forced to wait 2-3 hours for the next train.

[TaplowGreen]

In which case, it was so heavily delayed that Bristol had obtained authorisation prior to its arrival.##I have seen XCs^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) instructions to other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff.

From personal experience having worked on the station side of things, XC will not pay out for taxi's without an authorisation number.

This doesn't stop a station organising a taxi, but if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) later ask for authorisation and XC decline, then the bill is landing on FGW's desk.  We would check the whole journey the customer had made on TRUST^▸ (Train Running System TOPS) to verify it was the XC train that caused the mis-connect and not another TOC, but XC would want to know.

(To add, XC never once turned down a request when it came to missing the last service of the day).

Isn't this typical of the way the railways work? TOCs shaking handbags at each other whilst the paying customer suffers.....if a TOC has failed to keep to its side of the deal by getting the train in on time and this means the customer is in danger of missing flights etc (notwithstanding allowing the recommended connection time), then this should be mitigated by providing the customer with an alternative means of transport, no squabbling, end of, regardless of what time of day it is.Put the customer first, every time.

[grahame]

Isn't this typical of the way the railways work?

Yes and - err - unYes.

A couple of examples that I've seen / am familiar with.

a) The last Cross Country service into Bristol Temple Meads to connect forward to Weymouth often rolls in a bit late, and the Weymouth leaves on time - "I saw the train leaving" stuff.  It's my understanding that passengers are sent on the next Westbury train, and taxied from there - and I think that they're taken to the office and arrangements made for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) to be billed.   However - in my experience the XC delay is (often as not) caused by a late running Malvern to Temple Meads local service, so perhaps FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should pick up the bill?

b) There is a specific policy at Swindon for the holding of connections to Gloucester and Cheltenham in the event of a late running train from London (even in the event of a cancelled one in one case) and a note of which services passengers will be required to "drop back" on, and which will be taxied.