Apparently, I broke the law at Clifton Down today.

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

There I am, on the platform, waiting for the train to Temple Meads, and I espy a new poster. What's this, I wonder? I'm always curious, so I sallied forth for a perusal.



All well and good you might think, and well done to Network Rail and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) for tackling the twin scourges of pigeons and graffiti. Two birds (or rather, one bird and one git) with one stone and all that. But I encountered a serious problem. After reading this poster I realised I was apparently also about to break the law.

Why? You may well ask. Well, look at that second paragraph. "If you pass this point you will be committing an offence. First Great Western and Network Rail will prosecute all offenders." Note my bold and underlining. No mincing their words there.

So what's the problem? Well, it's the location of this poster. Bang in the middle of the platform. Once you've read it and digested the dire threat of prosecution, you can't legally move, as that would mean "passing this point". Step to the left? Step to the right? You're nicked sunshine.

I didn't know what to do. I'm a law abiding citizen these days. Ignoring the warning on the poster and passing it means I will be prosecuted. But I had a train to catch. No doubt I shall be dragged out of bed in the wee small hours and carted off to the nearest BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) holding cell. Answering to the BTP I can deal with. Dealing with the wrath of Glynn Beck? Well, I'm not so sure. Still, nice of him to sign off on the threat with a cheery, "Regards".

Here's the poster location. Left hand side of picture. I urge fellow forumites to go nowhere near it. Although, ignorance is no defence:

[grahame]

Along the same lines ...



My problem with this?

"Euston Railway Station are now issuing a withdrawal of implied permission to ANYONE who is involved in ANY of the following activities", one of which is "any activity likely to cause distress or interfere with the comfort of others using the station"

Now - I would suggest that if someone was taken ill - say was violently sick or had an epileptic fit - in the station, that would be an activity likely to cause distress to other users of the station.   So according to the notice, they would get a six month ban from the station as a punishment for being taken ill there.  I suspect that's not what the notice was supposed to say - I thought we had come a long way forward from that sort of attitude.

I'm not sure this is entirely "lighter side" stuff ... as written, it's a Draconian rule.  And it looks to me to be "guilty until proven innocent" - I see nothing about appeal against the withdrawal of access.

[Electric train]

I really think you both are taking the Vladimir Putin approach to these signs    .................... reading too much into them 

[Lee]

Basically, they have decided to seal off the area under the bridge at Clifton Down, in order to protect their customers.

The positioning of the poster is obviously meant to make clear that they reserve the right to intervene and seal off the eastern half of the platform as well, should the need to protect their customers there become apparent...

[Rhydgaled]

'Pass this point' is open to interpretation as 'going beyond this point'. Therefore, bignosemac, unless you squeesed yourself into the gap between the wall and sign you did not technically pass the point (sign).

[JayMac]

Aha. Should the direction one 'passes' be perpendicular to the poster or horizontal based on viewing angle?

Regardless of geometry I contend that the poster is in the wrong place.

It should be on the fence on both platforms at Clifton Down next to the 'Passengers must not pass this point' signs before the short tunnel under Whiteladies Road:



I did notice that there were some hi-vis clad folk busy under that bridge last month with paint brushes. I do hope that the grey paint they've slapped on the walls and supports is of a type that disallows another coat. Otherwise, all that Network Rail have succeeded in doing is giving a blank canvas to the next scrote with a spray can. Or perhaps this grey paint contains an anti-Columba livia agent.

[SDS]

Railway stations have always been private land. However I was under the impression that WIRA was civil and as such can not be arrested fot the breach. You more likely be arrested for wilfully refusing to quit or railway trespass. Still I think BTP^▸ (British Transport Police)/CPS would have problems prosecuting under that notice.

[Red Squirrel]

...the short tunnel under Whiteladies Road:

That had me scurrying off to check the definition of 'tunnel' - Whiteladies Rd itself is plainly carried on a bridge, but what is the correct term for a structure where buildings are suspended above a railway line?

Personally I regret that face that Clifton Down Station can no longer be accessed directly from Whiteladies Rd (passing under the suspended shops); I seem to remember that before the little group of kiosk-style shops was built to plug the gap by Whiteladies Rd bridge there was a flight of steps there - much more convenient than the current access arrangement.

Edit: Sadly I can't readily check exactly how it used to be as the documents are not avaialable online: http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=9102859F

[paul7575]

That had me scurrying off to check the definition of 'tunnel' - Whiteladies Rd itself is plainly carried on a bridge, but what is the correct term for a structure where buildings are suspended above a railway line?

Possibly referred to by engineers/builders as a 'covered way'?   For the purposes of train crew involved in rail operations though, there are only tunnels or bridges, and the operational usage is dependent on the length for which the railway is enclosed, as far as it affects protection after an incident and that sort of thing.

An example is where a road overbridge is at an extreme skew over the line - it may seem just like a bridge, but the driver and guard will treat it as a tunnel if so defined.   

Paul

[PhilWakely]

Take a close look at the signage that could been seen at Pinhoe station until recently....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pwakely/5764010765/

(apologies - tried to embed the image, but failed miserably!

Apparently, you would have broken the law just by either entering or leaving the station by the gate in the background - despite it being an 'official entry/exit point'!

[Cynthia]

I really think you both are taking the Vladimir Putin approach to these signs    .................... reading too much into them 

Yes, I wondered myself whether this topic should have been posted in the 'Pedant Alert' thread. 

The Station manager's concerned about the pigeon and graffiti problem then?  I'm just dropping by to say that all he needs to do is confiscate their felt tip pens......  Cooooo, what a spoilsport.

Oh alright, I'll go back to sleep now......

[thetrout]

You're getting worse than me now BNM!

I agree that the sign is in the wrong place. BNM has taken that picture from the opposite side of the entrance to the platform so has infact [according to this sign] broken the law...! It needs to be by that shelter...

That being said I disagree with the method used of notifying you of the breach of the Law. Whilst ignorance is never a defence, the following mitigating circumstances should be considered:

• Has the person seen the sign to read it? Or have they ignored it under the same **** different day zombie trance?
• Assuming they've seen the sign, can they actually read it? Dyslexia, Intoxication, Irlens Syndrome could prevent them from doing so?
• Lets assume they've read the sign. Have they actually understood it? [10 years ago a large number of those words I wouldn't be able to read/pronounce let alone understand]

Now lets take a very dark turn... That BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) / Network Rail sign in my opinion is VERY dangerous! Let me explain why.

"any activity likely to cause distress or interfere with the comfort of others using the station" ALSO the line about not being able to use Boots the Chemist for Prescriptions and Methadone

Well lets assume Schizophrenia/Psychosis in this case along with Drug Abuse... I've picked these too for very good reasons as sadly they often go hand in hand...

Someone talking to themselves/acting oddly which causes "distress" to another person on the railway. They somehow end up with an WIRA (Withdrawal of Implied Right of Access) Notice just for having this condition that upsets other passengers. Seems unfair. Well I can give a partial insight into this:

Auditory Hallucinations heard by Psychosis/Schizophrenia patients often try to discourage the 'host' from taking their medication which is prescribed to reduce or prevent Psychotic Episodes. Many different reasons are cited by the voices but one of the most common one is that the medication is poisonous. This sign is now saying you can't use this chemist to collect your medication!! Can anyone see what I'm trying to get at there? You've just fuelled the fire and now the patient is really going to feel afraid to take their medication. Maybe even refuse compliance.


I have so many problems with that BTP sign it's unreal actually. I guess losing control of your bladder/bowel at an inappropriate time could see you with a WIRA as I'm sure that would cause discomfort to another passenger? But isn't that in the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) as WILFULL intent? But is wilfull intent deciding to drop your trousers on the table in the Quiet Carriage? I agree. Losing control through a disability? I can't see that as wilful I'm sorry.

As I said I picked Psychosis for a specific reason, I have it! Just this year I had a chap in Coach G ask me not to use my mobile phone in the quiet carriage. Problem was I wasn't using it. Without realising I had started to talk to the voices out loud as opposed to internally. This cause a rather awkward silence (Ironic it was the quiet carriage). But needless to say, the chap asked me to stop using what he thought was a phone. So I caused him discomfort. Is that wilful? Predominately no, but could be. I chose to answer the voices... But it's not like I can just turn them off I could've ignored them or gone and sat elsewhere. Others will argue that am not of sufficient sound mind to travel.

Mind you I cause alot of people discomfort simply by being in the same room as them

[SDS]

By refusing someone access to a location to get medication, wouldn't that be grounds for disability discrimination or a breach of the Equality Act?

I can see that if anything did happen in regards to that sign, and it was challenged, that a court would look very unfavourably on it and the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police).

[Chris from Nailsea]

There I am, on the platform, waiting for the train to Temple Meads, and I espy a new poster. What's this, I wonder? I'm always curious, so I sallied forth for a perusal.

Some might suggest, based on that particular sequence of events, that 'bignosemac' is ... well, just a nosey so and so.  I, of course, couldn't possibly comment. 

I did notice that there were some hi-vis clad folk busy under that bridge last month with paint brushes. I do hope that the grey paint they've slapped on the walls and supports is of a type that disallows another coat. Otherwise, all that Network Rail have succeeded in doing is giving a blank canvas to the next scrote with a spray can. Or perhaps this grey paint contains an anti-Columba livia agent.

I can reassure our readers that the particular 'grey paint' they have used is indeed an anti-graffiti coating.  It works rather well, too: I visited Bedminster Station last week, and was pleased to see that the grey walls there generally remain free from any rogue artwork. 

[JayMac]

Some might suggest, based on that particular sequence of events, that 'bignosemac' is ... well, just a nosey so and so.  I, of course, couldn't possibly comment. 

They'd be right. 

And some might say that Chris from Nailsea is the spiritual successor to The Right Honourable Francis Urquhart MP^▸ (Member of Parliament).