Wasting a ^Milllion or Two.

[whole diary]

[grahame]

In reply to Broadgage, to Transfer Staff under TUPE^▸ (The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006. In a railway context, the legislation that protects rail staff when a franchise changes hands.), costs a lot. New Uniform, Vans and Equipment.
New Maintenance (PPMs^▸ (Parry People Mover, or Pence Per Mile, or Public Performance Measure - depending on context)) have to be set up, that costs big bucks.

As I said Wessex Trains wanted to change Maintenance provider for it's last 20 months but DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) stopped it because off the change over costs.

And you still haven't answered my question "if not at this point in a franchise, then when".  You appear to be saying "this is no good" but not coming up with any alternative suggestion.  I'm happy for you not to answer (I won't nag again), but if you don't it will be clear to readers that you've not got any better alternative to offer.

[Dark Star]

For 18 months, why not just keep the Status Quo.
When the New Franchise is awarded that's the time to change Contracts.
Even if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) saved 10% on the Charges made by the New Contracter it would need to be a
^million a month contract to recover the set up costs.
And if a New Company wins the Great Western franchise let them change Contracts in their own time.

[ellendune]

In reply to Broadgage, to Transfer Staff under TUPE^▸ (The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006. In a railway context, the legislation that protects rail staff when a franchise changes hands.), costs a lot. New Uniform, Vans and Equipment.
New Maintenance (PPMs^▸ (Parry People Mover, or Pence Per Mile, or Public Performance Measure - depending on context)) have to be set up, that costs big bucks.

As I said Wessex Trains wanted to change Maintenance provider for it's last 20 months but DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) stopped it because off the change over costs.

Yes a TUPE transfer does cost a bit - depends on the conditions of service you have to inherit, but it can be cheaper than a recruitment exercise if the conditions are similar. As for Vans - they are probably leased anyway and if there was a break clause in the contract at this time then the existing contractor will only have a lease up to this time anyway.  Uniforms are replaced regularly anyway. So for the parking it is just the signs and these could be done with plastic overlay just as they do on trains.

Not sure what the maintenance contract covers so not sure what that would involve.

[Electric train]

In reply to Broadgage, to Transfer Staff under TUPE^▸ (The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006. In a railway context, the legislation that protects rail staff when a franchise changes hands.), costs a lot. New Uniform, Vans and Equipment.
New Maintenance (PPMs^▸ (Parry People Mover, or Pence Per Mile, or Public Performance Measure - depending on context)) have to be set up, that costs big bucks.

As I said Wessex Trains wanted to change Maintenance provider for it's last 20 months but DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) stopped it because off the change over costs.

Yes a TUPE transfer does cost a bit - depends on the conditions of service you have to inherit, but it can be cheaper than a recruitment exercise if the conditions are similar. As for Vans - they are probably leased anyway and if there was a break clause in the contract at this time then the existing contractor will only have a lease up to this time anyway.  Uniforms are replaced regularly anyway. So for the parking it is just the signs and these could be done with plastic overlay just as they do on trains.

Not sure what the maintenance contract covers so not sure what that would involve.

I agree, the change of contractor is not always that expensive, TUPE only applies if 60% or more of that staff members work is in that contract.
Van are not an issue as you  said ellendune they will be leased.

Dark Star I am not sure DfT could stop a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) changing its maintenance contractor unless the TOC was trying to bill it back to DfT which might happen if the TOC had inherited a previous franchise maintenance contractor.

These changes happen all the time the likes of MITE, Lorne Stewarts etc bid and retender for this type of work all the time

[broadgage]

As others post, vans are probably leased, and anyway could be re-used on other contracts.
Uniform is cheap and needs regular replacement anyway, I fairly recently moved from one maintenance contractor to another, and they bought me 6 polo shirts, cheap and nasty I doubt that they cost more than ^30 in total.
Uniform trousers are almost allways black or navy blue and sometimes outlast the contract !

TUPE^▸ (The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006. In a railway context, the legislation that protects rail staff when a franchise changes hands.) is unlikely to cost much as terms and conditions are broadly similar with all the major maintenance contractors.

PPM^▸ (Parry People Mover, or Pence Per Mile, or Public Performance Measure - depending on context) schedules are generally drawn up by a consultant who will as part of their contract supply a copy to the new maintenance contractor.

[paul7575]

If the existing term contract is coming to an end there's always the possibility that the contractor himself doesn't want to renew.

It worked for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) after all...

Paul

[broadgage]

If the existing term contract is coming to an end there's always the possibility that the contractor himself doesn't want to renew.

It worked for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) after all...

Paul

Agree, my present employers did not re-tender for an about to expire contract as they felt they could not make a profit on it.

[Dark Star]

Just been speaking to the APCOA^▸ (Car parking company used at GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - controlled stations in the area) cap park man at my local Station.
This time Next week (s)he will be working for a New Unknown company.
Now what's that about Minimum notice of TUPE^▸ (The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006. In a railway context, the legislation that protects rail staff when a franchise changes hands.).

M & E contract has gone to Integral.
3 years contract so how long has First got Great Western for?

[ChrisB]

If they don't get a 5ye extension Direct Grant then it'll presumablty be a TUPE^▸ (The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006. In a railway context, the legislation that protects rail staff when a franchise changes hands.) again....

[TonyK]

TUPE^▸ (The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006. In a railway context, the legislation that protects rail staff when a franchise changes hands.) or not TUPE, that is the question.

TUPE was, IIRC^▸ ('if I recall/remember/read correctly'), mainly designed to deal with privatisation of formerly public services, so giving transferring employees the rights to their leave, pensions, repugnancy terms, etc. New employees, not subject to the former gilt-edged promises, get less. broadgage points out correctly that amongst contractors at car park level, Ts & Cs vary little. TUPE is unlikely to cost anyone much.