Future of the Railways in Global Climate Change Conditions

[whole diary]

[Cynthia]

My apologies, Mods, if I've put this thread in the wrong place....

I was reading a very interesting article on the Met Office website the other day, called "A Global Perspective on the Recent Storms and Floods in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).".  (I would provide the link, but the last time I tried to upload the appropriate page, all I got was a load of textual gobbledegook)

The gist of the article was about rising sea temperatures and the effects on global weather systems.  I have read similar synopses in other books (I think one called "The Big Earth Book") about the tipping point as regards the rising temperature of our planet, and the effects on the eco-systems and oceans etc.  One can't help but wonder whether we have already reached, or even passed, beyond redemption, the point of no return; that we now have to face the consequences of that rise.  As we all  know, the planets weather systems seemed to have gone completely to pot in recent years; scientists are warning that we will just have to learn to live with extreme weather events.

So, my point is, How long will it be before Network Rail and all the train operating companies throw in the towel, and decide that it is counter-productive to spend sqwillions of pounds on the rail system, in the light of continuing extreme, and very damaging weather patterns?  Will they realise after a few years that they will not be able to keep their share-holders happy with nice fat didvidends, and ask the government of the day to re-nationalise the railways, so that once again the poor ol' tax payer will have to pick up the bills if a national rail system remains viable?  "Discuss", as they say in all the best A-level papers.

Did anyone listen to Jeremy Vine on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Radio 2 this morning?  A discussion about who is to blame for the floods etc.  Various people supposedly in the know were all blaming each other/anyone else but themselves, and it took a listener 'phoning in to provide the most sensible response on the programme, i.e., we're ALL to blame, for burning fossil fuels and failing to keep a check on levels of CO2.

[John R]

You won't have to wait too long for renationalisation of Network Rail as its happening on 1st September.

[eightf48544]

I have just had one of stone in pond ideas, see where the ripples go!

I am fast coming to te econclusion that if we want to live in a civilised society with a decent NHS, schools and transport system plus an adequate drainage and sanitation (maybe that should be first) system we are all going to have to pay MORE TAX!

It is interesting to note that the Danes seem to be the happiest people in the world and yet pay the highest tax

[grahame]

A discussion about who is to blame for the floods etc. ....

It's all the frog spit, isn't it?



In all seriousness, Cynthia, Network Rail is in effect a nationalised asset and indeed it gets formally put back on the government books soon ... and quite a lot of the current shorter franchises are more operating contracts than commercial ventures in their own right ...

[Cynthia]

You won't have to wait too long for renationalisation of Network Rail as its happening on 1st September.

Thanks for that, John R, your statement highlights the fact that I know diddly squat about railways!   

Perhaps I need to rephrase that paragraph in my diatribe to wonder how long the government will continue to invest in the railway infastructure long-term, in the light of forthcoming worsening/damaging extreme weather events.

[Cynthia]

I have just had one of stone in pond ideas, see where the ripples go!

I am fast coming to the conclusion that if we want to live in a civilised society with a decent NHS, schools and transport system plus an adequate drainage and sanitation (maybe that should be first) system we are all going to have to pay MORE TAX!

It is interesting to note that the Danes seem to be the happiest people in the world and yet pay the highest tax

Isn't that also the case in Finland and Sweden?  I'm with you on this one, eight, but I don't think it'll happen any time soon in this country.  Not only would most people oppose the idea vociferously, but the companies that are already turning tax evasion into a fine art will just find even further ways of avoiding sharing their goodies with the Treasury.  Lovely idea though.

[Rhydgaled]

You won't have to wait too long for renationalisation of Network Rail as its happening on 1st September.

Although isn't Network Rail (unlike Railtrack before it) only psudeo-private anyway?

One can't help but wonder whether we have already reached, or even passed, beyond redemption, the point of no return; that we now have to face the consequences of that rise.

One fears this may be the case, but must hope otherwise as the alternative is "we're doomed". One also hopes that our leaders take note and start realising that things cannot continue as they have been and start to try leading us away from that deadly point of no return. For example, current government policy still supports enhanced infrustructure to support growth in car use and aviation. A transport-centric example, but it goes far beyond transport.

[John R]

Yes, but the forthcoming change in the treatment of its debt makes it much more clearly a state asset (or is that liability).

[Southern Stag]

It might lead to a change in policy over NR^» (Network Rail - home page) debt. Network Rail debt will now be classified as public debt, whereas it was previously off the government's books. Network Rail debt is the main way infrastructure enhancements are funded under the current regime.

[Cynthia]

It might lead to a change in policy over NR^» (Network Rail - home page) debt. Network Rail debt will now be classified as public debt, whereas it was previously off the government's books.

This is surely why so many privatisations are ultimately a recipe for disaster as far as the tax payer is concerned.  Utilities are sold off cheaply, squeezed dry and the bones thrown back at the treasury.  Oh, lucky lucky us.  Lots of Network Rail debt to service, whilst trying to fund improvements at a time of unprecedented extreme weather events.


Edited to fix quote. bignosemac

[Cynthia]

One fears this may be the case, but must hope otherwise as the alternative is "we're doomed". One also hopes that our leaders take note and start realising that things cannot continue as they have been and start to try leading us away from that deadly point of no return. For example, current government policy still supports enhanced infrustructure to support growth in car use and aviation. A transport-centric example, but it goes far beyond transport.

It's being so cheerful that keeps me going!  Personally, though I do try to remain optimistic about the future, the facts about sea temperature rises and their effects are hard to ignore. And I am one big hypocrite anyway, as, much as my ambition is to make much more use of rail travel, you'd still need a tin-opener to prise me out of my little Skoda, even if it is a fairly low-emissions motor.



Edited to fix quote. bignosemac

[Cynthia]

You won't have to wait too long for renationalisation of Network Rail as its happening on 1st September.

grahame said they're already effectively nationalised, you are saying it's happening on 1st September, who is right?  I was talking to my daughter about this today, and she didn't believe me!  I don't know where to look for the evidence.

[trainer]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) currently has no shareholders or owners as such, but is still subject to government statute and control.  As I understand it, a technical change to the way NR is financially accounted takes place on 1st September.  This will mean NR will in effect become part of the national debt and subject to government spending controls.

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), although probably not technically nationalised at the moment, NR is de facto already there except it is free from the down sides of that state.  However, it is to be brought closer under the dead hand of the Treasury it seems so the political winds of change and vacillation are more likely to be apparent in long term planning on the railways.

As for evidence, it's somewhere in Hansard, but I'm finding it difficult to pin-point at present.  No doubt someone with more expertise at scanning the official Parliamentary record can help.

Edit by trainer for typo

[ChrisB]

That is certainly the way I see it too.

[John R]

Agree- thanks trainer for setting the position out so clearly.