Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 19:55 08 Jan 2025
 
* Mother 'not surprised' son killed on London bus
* Ryanair sues 'unruly' passenger that diverted flight
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 today - Steam loco restoration - IRTE
tomorrow - Bath Railway Society
24/01/25 - Westbury Station reopens
24/01/25 - LTP4 Wilts / Consultation end

On this day
8th Jan (1991)
Cannon Street buffer stop collision (link)

Train RunningCancelled
19:24 Reading to Gatwick Airport
19:30 Looe to Liskeard
20:05 Liskeard to Looe
20:37 Looe to Liskeard
21:05 Liskeard to Looe
21:37 Looe to Liskeard
21:53 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill
23:20 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids
09/01/25 05:57 Liskeard to Looe
09/01/25 06:30 Looe to Liskeard
09/01/25 07:20 Liskeard to Looe
09/01/25 07:54 Looe to Liskeard
09/01/25 08:30 Liskeard to Looe
09/01/25 09:05 Looe to Liskeard
09/01/25 09:36 Liskeard to Looe
09/01/25 10:08 Looe to Liskeard
09/01/25 10:36 Liskeard to Looe
09/01/25 11:06 Looe to Liskeard
09/01/25 11:36 Liskeard to Looe
09/01/25 12:08 Looe to Liskeard
Short Run
18:26 Exmouth to Paignton
18:38 Barnstaple to Exmouth
20:52 London Paddington to Great Malvern
21:39 Paignton to Exmouth
Delayed
17:52 Trowbridge to Great Malvern
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:06 London Paddington to Bedwyn
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
January 08, 2025, 20:02:35 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[174] 'Railway 200' events and commemorations 2025
[82] Views sought : how train companies give assistance to disabled...
[69] Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents ...
[54] senior railcard
[52] Coastal walks - station to station
[28] Rail Replacement bus - OK, but I prefer the train.
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Person hit by a train at Twyford - 04 Feb 14  (Read 17159 times)
a-driver
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1105


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2014, 00:29:28 »

I don't think compensation can be claimed for the disrupted journeys due to a fatality, can it?

Part of the problem with on train announcements will be someone actually being around to make them on the train, which is difficult if there is no driver or guard in the first place.

On a Turbo, the PA (Public Address) system will only work if a driver is present with a key.  A station dispatcher is not able to make an on-train announcement.

Logged
insider
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 156


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2014, 03:02:48 »

The underground was closed due to overcrowding. Whilst staff on scene at Twyford may have done a good job it was different at Paddington...

I have now been stood for 50mins, wedged into a turbo like absolute sardines. We have sat in platform with no news for 50 bloody minutes.

I'll be throwing myself under strain at this rate.

Absolutely stinking useless.

Whilst I agree that no info for 50mins is unacceptable, FGW (First Great Western) or any TOC (Train Operating Company), do not wedge people into trains like sardines, the sardines choose to get on a busy train!!!!!!

People when using public transport are vey much like sheep and just follow each other.....I have worked on many stations and also done station control room work at various FGW stations, and blasted over the PA (Public Address) " Do not get on this train it is full."..but people still do anyway. Accepted that information is key, as if people knew next train was in x mins then they could make an informed choice.

But still my point is no one is ever forced onto a crowded train... if you don't like wait for the next one...simple
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 8450



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2014, 07:05:40 »

The underground was closed due to overcrowding. Whilst staff on scene at Twyford may have done a good job it was different at Paddington...

I have now been stood for 50mins, wedged into a turbo like absolute sardines. We have sat in platform with no news for 50 bloody minutes.

I'll be throwing myself under strain at this rate.

Absolutely stinking useless.

Whilst I agree that no info for 50mins is unacceptable, FGW (First Great Western) or any TOC (Train Operating Company), do not wedge people into trains like sardines, the sardines choose to get on a busy train!!!!!!

People when using public transport are vey much like sheep and just follow each other.....I have worked on many stations and also done station control room work at various FGW stations, and blasted over the PA (Public Address) " Do not get on this train it is full."..but people still do anyway. Accepted that information is key, as if people knew next train was in x mins then they could make an informed choice.

But still my point is no one is ever forced onto a crowded train... if you don't like wait for the next one...simple

Easy to say whilst sitting at home/in a control room nice and cosy.....not quite so easy to take that attitude if you've been waiting for hours in the freezing cold to get home to family and there's no certainty of when, or if, the next train to your destination will be running - no-one is suggesting that FGW staff literally "force" people on to trains, passengers are not being "sheep", just being human and wanting to get home..............
Logged
BerkshireBugsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1640


Berkshire Bugsy Jr


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2014, 07:45:02 »

Part of the problem with on train announcements will be someone actually being around to make them on the train, which is difficult if there is no driver or guard in the first place.

Although I am at risk of diverting this thread from its original intention it really amazes me that there is no way of providing real time information via (for example) panel displays on a service. whilst some of us have access to smartphones and data feeds in my opinion there is no substitute for being given the information rather than having to go looking for it.

Logged
NickB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 727


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2014, 08:49:14 »

On a Turbo, the PA (Public Address) system will only work if a driver is present with a key.  A station dispatcher is not able to make an on-train announcement.

There was a driver present.  He said hello and announced the destinations as we were boarding.  After 20mins he said we were cleared on a green signal and awaiting dispatch.  After 40mins he said we weren't.

He was definitely there, and undoubtedly not his fault that we didn't move, but the collective delivery was shocking.



Edited to fix quote. bignosemac
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 19:58:45 by bignosemac » Logged
NickB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 727


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2014, 08:56:10 »

Whilst I agree that no info for 50mins is unacceptable, FGW (First Great Western) or any TOC (Train Operating Company), do not wedge people into trains like sardines, the sardines choose to get on a busy train!!!!!!

People when using public transport are vey much like sheep and just follow each other.....I have worked on many stations and also done station control room work at various FGW stations, and blasted over the PA (Public Address) " Do not get on this train it is full."..but people still do anyway. Accepted that information is key, as if people knew next train was in x mins then they could make an informed choice.

But still my point is no one is ever forced onto a crowded train... if you don't like wait for the next one...simple

Yes, I quite agree - Its all my fault for wanting to go home.  What an idiot I am.  Sorry.

When the Bourne End train appeared on the screens I, and hundreds of others, had been on the concourse for nearly an hour.  We were not told that the relief line had reopened.  We 'sheep' computed in our simple brains that a train that in theory could be the ONLY way of reaching Maidenhead as it is the ONLY train that does not proceed via Twyford had managed to make it to Paddington.  We 'sheep' were told that it would be departing imminently.  After not running ANY trains to either Slough, Maidenhead or the branches for over an hour during peak time exactly how many sheep do you think tried to board that train?  And once on board, having been told that we had a green signal, how many sheep decided to get off and hang around for god-knows-how-long?



Edited to fix quote. bignosemac
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 19:57:47 by bignosemac » Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13028


View Profile Email
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2014, 10:42:55 »

IN my experience, once trains start running, the frequency is usually good, as they need to keep trains turning round to free up platforms for those stacked up on the up lines.

So go for a pint/coffee & try again once the lines are clear. Far easier & far more comfortable than *having* to be on the first train out.

But very few will think that way. Sheep they are.
Logged
BBM
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 643


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2014, 11:30:36 »

IN my experience, once trains start running, the frequency is usually good, as they need to keep trains turning round to free up platforms for those stacked up on the up lines.

So go for a pint/coffee & try again once the lines are clear. Far easier & far more comfortable than *having* to be on the first train out.

But very few will think that way. Sheep they are.

I've had very mixed experiences in the aftermath of major disruptions (fortunately I missed last night's by just 15 minutes). There was the time when I decided not to board a rammed 3-car Turbo and found myself on a half-empty 5-car one running just a few minutes later. Then again, on another occasion when I decided not to board a rammed 3-car Turbo, there were no further departures to Twyford for another hour and I still found myself on a rammed 3-car Turbo. Who knows what will happen?
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10362


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2014, 11:38:58 »

I witnessed several staff running around at Oxford with no clue what was going on with trains and traincrew - and that was several hours after the lines had reopened.  Once again, a very poor response (staff mostly let down by information problems, rather than staff not caring) to a difficult situation.  Incidentally, the Area Operations Managers, who liaise on a local level with Control regarding train and traincrew allocation go off-shift at 7pm at Oxford - that's when headless chicken syndrome usually starts!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 8450



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2014, 11:57:11 »

IN my experience, once trains start running, the frequency is usually good, as they need to keep trains turning round to free up platforms for those stacked up on the up lines.

So go for a pint/coffee & try again once the lines are clear. Far easier & far more comfortable than *having* to be on the first train out.

But very few will think that way. Sheep they are.

..........what a great advert for the rail industry's attitude towards it's customers......don't forget that its us "sheep" who pay your wages!
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13028


View Profile Email
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2014, 12:18:55 »

eh? I'm not railway....
Logged
trainer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1035


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2014, 12:30:36 »

One of the problems with trying to save face by criticising the behaviour of (usually other) people is that we end up with a 'stand-off' and manning the bunkers of our position.

The position presented seems to be: I always act rationally, I wish everyone else would.

In this case human responses dictate that when dealing with frustration and powerlessness, behaviour resorts to self-preservation/interest.  That's human rather than sheep-like IMHO (in my humble opinion).

A request for timely information from those who know to those feeling helpless seems to me to be reasonable.  I'm not sure how we got into blaming those without the power, who responded to the information and situation they were presented with and might have made other choices should a different approach have been taken.  There are genuine institutional issues here.  The railways deal with people - sheep are much easier to pen in with a few dogs and whistles and don't complain in ways we listen to.

(I am of course completely rational at all times  Roll Eyes which is why my loud and angry mobile call to a relative at the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) about being stuffed into a 2 coach 158 because of his mates' decisions on stock was quite reasonable  Wink. Relative no longer there, I should add).
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13028


View Profile Email
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2014, 12:43:06 »

The self preservation/interest 'problem' does seem worse at PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) than other London Terminus stations I've experience of.

Yes, of course I agree timely info is necessary and sensible. However, drivers aren't allowed phones etc in the cab to be switched on, so getting info to them is via the cab radio, which goes to the signallers, not control.

Also, decisions are almost always taken short notice, and info on next train won't usually be known as decisions still remain to be made. But, in my experience, waiting usually costs you no more than 30 mins max over trying to squeeze on the first train, and you get a far more comfortable ride home.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 43062



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2014, 13:36:15 »

Posting as one of let night's headless chickens ...  Wink ... perhaps, having slept on this it's a good time to reflect, analyse, and perhaps we can even make a couple of cheeky suggestions to FGW (First Great Western) as to little changes.

Arriving via the Hammersmith and City, I got a hint of things amiss in that the "Next Departure to" boards at the taxi ranks were only showing local stations, and a further hint in that the bridge across to the middle of the platforms was solid rather than free flowing. And getting across to the main bridge, everything showed up as "delayed" ... with little clue as to why.

Suggestion (1):  A one line 'ticker tape' status banner on each of these - even if it says as little as "We have just [18:37] received reports of a problem on the main lines. All services are held while we learn more. Next update by 18:52 at the latest"

On the main concourse, I spoke with a very helpful staff member ((who told me his role wasn't normally 'front of house')) who filled me in pretty well.   And I congratulate him for saying "don't know" rather than guessing to certain questions. He did, however, have to direct me to some l-o-n-g queues for further specific information, some of which I think could be included in a general set of guidelines rather than overloading the normal front of house team.

Suggestion (2): I've seen FCC (First Capital Connect) do it - a "what alternatives are there in the event of disruption?", together with, perhaps, a paragraph on the steps that FGW go though ... "Please bear with us in the early stages of disruption.   When something goes wrong, it takes us a little time to find out what's happened, and some more time to know how long it's going to take to fix and what the options are.  But we WILL promise to update you at least once every 15 minutes, even if the answer is "don't know yet"."    Alternative options listed may include use of Greenford Trains, South West Trains from Waterloo, Chiltern from Marylebone, Heathrow services, etc.   Most commuters have common sense - so explain that it's better to hold services at Paddington than to dispatch in hope and leave people crammed into trains near the wilds of Slough for indeterminate periods.

Suggestion (3): "Off Peak restrictions lifted" was announced ... and that was contradicted by the departure board for the 18:15 to Swansea when in flashed up.  But what exactly does 'lifted' mean.  Would my off peak return half to Melksham have been accepted on the first connection in the morning?   If so, I would probably have found myself a cheap hotel near Paddington and travelled out on the 07:30; unlikely to have been a "sardine" service, but I wasn't going to risk a hotel bill plus a peak single, nor did I really want to queue and ask. So - clarification and perhaps standard practise.

Well - they called the 18:15 and - scrum down. It was the only possible chance to catch my last connection from Swindon, and it's unclear to me whether "person hit by train" is considered to be a rail industry fault, so whether compensation (not really interested) and / or getting e to destination come what may (very interested) would click in.  And we boarded and waited and waited.   Comment was made in the coach vestibule that there's only just time to board most of the time at Paddington, so why is it when we were sardined it took so long?   Information had dried up, and I noted that most of my travelling companions knew even less about what was going on that I did.   A strange sense of camaraderie in discomfort clicked in ...

Suggestion (4): back to that FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) again ... have information in there about how and when information might be expected, how it's best to keep people in stations not between, why there can't be announcements on trains while they're waiting (!) and a promise of a time limited update come what may.   And if even one or two people have that FAQ, they'll share it with others; keep people in the dark and they'll complain - help explain (better yet get them to explain to each other) and the whole atmosphere becomes easier.

Once we were going, information WAS pretty good.  Changing points, what was happening with connections, an offer to come through once the train got less crowded to help the West Wales contingent.

Suggestion (5):  remember all the connections ... including the TransWilts one ;-) ... I didn't have a clue whether anyone hade even thought of Swindon to Westbury, though they were full of Swindon to Cheltenham

Arriving into Swindon, off train, asked I First chap "where for Melksham" ... "Platform 2" he says with confidence. "That's under the subway".  Ah - nice that the connection was making.   Dash upper, up, forward to an ... empty ... bay platform. Oh :-( ...
back to ask another First chap.  "Oh - it's gone.  Go back to platform 4 and get that Bristol train that's just pulling in ... I'll contact Chippenham to have them get a taxi for you ..."

puff puff puff ... I had heavy luggage on this trip

Suggestion (6): don't let staff guess answers just to move customers on.  I really didn't want to do 4 sets of stairs with heavy bags, and nearly be delayed a further hour, because of a guess!

Chippenham - dispatcher sends of west and east trains, writes out a taxi chit and finds me a taxi.  Quite a relief - didn't really want to fork out nearly 30 quid of my own or wait 90 minutes for the late bus.  THANK YOU.   But I really wish I knew the precise rules.

Hey - it could have been a LOT lot worse, and there were others a lot more delayed, let alone the family of the person hit, driver, etc.   But it's worth a quick look back a day later and wondering "are there reasons why some of these apparently simple information items can't be done?".  Perhaps there are, but it looks to me like a little could have gone a long way - and that little could be planned for and seeded so it doesn't drain resources at that peak busyness time!


Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
thetrout
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2612



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2014, 13:53:34 »

But still my point is no one is ever forced onto a crowded train... if you don't like wait for the next one...simple

I have to agree with this... Lips sealed Undecided Embarrassed

At Bath Spa a couple of weeks ago the 18:00 to Taunton (HST (High Speed Train)) was delayed by 10 minutes which allowed the Bristol bound 18:07 into the platform first (2 Car Class 150) Despite repetitive and clear announcements from platform staff that there was an 8 Carriage HST Right Behind the 2 car unit, everyone surged onto the 2 Car Unit and, of course, moaned about overcrowding etc.

The Unit departed and all looked incredibly cosy... Roll Eyes The HST turned up 2 minutes later which had plenty of room (and seats, 5.75 Carriages Worth). So I do agree with insider. In my scenario here at Bath Spa, this happens all too often and I do wonder why people feel the need to be in such a rush!

So go for a pint/coffee & try again once the lines are clear. Far easier & far more comfortable than *having* to be on the first train out.

But very few will think that way. Sheep they are.

Again, agreed. Did exactly this during disruption on GreaterAnglia services last year. I stayed put in the First Class Lounge... I had no intention of trying to fight for personal space on a 4 Car Class 321... I wasn't in a hurry and I didn't see the point in exonerating my Anxiety for the sake of an hour. Ladyfriend Trout was in Southend before I was due to leave London Liverpool Street... She was still going to be there an hour later... Smiley

I've even had staff say "If only more passengers were like you..." and I kinda feel a bit sad that staff say that as it doesn't shade the masses with a colourful light. Of course we have all been in those situations where we do *have* to be on that first train. I can think of one such incident myself with a fatality between Reading and Paddington. I was heading for Birmingham International for a flight to Spain. Had it not have been for the purpose of attending a Funeral in Spain of a close relative I may have been more willing to risk missing the flight... At that particular time it wasn't an option. I did get a bit mift about the lack of information (this was 2009) and due to an imminent flight was very edgy and not of good character Sad Embarrassed Undecided Lips sealed

So admittedly I wasn't too nice to a member of staff who rubbed me up the wrong way. I did come back and apologise and explained myself. I did also say and too present day still stand by my comments that my Anxiety and Stress were no excuse to be rude to someone who had no control over the situation. Whilst I could not and cannot justify being rude; we are only human and everyone has a bad day. Similar to the Gateline Staff Member at Kings Cross on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) The Railway: "I've met some nice people in very bad moods" for me, that day was one of them.

In summary, I can see it from both sides. But I can't help but agree with insider and ChrisB. But also that information is crucial; even if it is: "I don't know, I'll tell you again in 15 minutes and if I still don't know in 15 minutes I'll tell you that as well" In my Flight Case, had that simple piece of information been communicated, it would have reduced my already high Anxiety considerably...!
Logged

Grin Grin Grin Grin
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page