Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Whilst in theory HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) and new or reopened lines lines in Devon are independant of each other, and each to be judged on its own merits, in practice I can forsee some adverse interaction between the two.

Firstly IF HS2 goes ahead, there are likely to be calls that "enough has been/is being spent on railways for now, it is the turn of motorways and airports"
Secondly, IF HS2 goes ahead, even if the money IS ALSO available for a Dawlish avoiding line, it might not be easy to find enough skilled workers, materials, and plant and machinery to do both projects at the same time.

[Southern Stag]

HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) isn't about improving journey times though, that's just a nice side benefit. It's really about providing a much needed capacity increase on the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) by diverting fast services onto HS2 freeing up capacity for better semi-fast services and more freight. Once you get onto HS2 phase 2 you can also divert more MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) fast traffic via HS2, freeing up more capacity on those lines too. If the government has any sense they'll insist that there is no premium charged for using HS2, as doing so makes no sense at all. If you charge a premium for using HS2 you'll put people off using it and have to run more fast services on conventional lines, which will mean less capacity will be freed up.

[Tim]

If the government has any sense they'll insist that there is no premium charged for using HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), as doing so makes no sense at all. If you charge a premium for using HS2 you'll put people off using it and have to run more fast services on conventional lines, which will mean less capacity will be freed up.

Agree 100%.  Witness the problems with the M6 toll road.  Charge a premium to use it and few people do so now they are talking about widening the M6 at great expense to solve a problem which the toll road ought to have done. 

[Southern Stag]

It's one of the problems with HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) too. Lots of people were, and probably still are, unhappy about the increased journey times via Classic routes. Many of the stations served by the classic routes have an improved service though. If there was no premium for using HS1 the increased journey times via the classic routes from stations served by HS1 would not be such a problem.

[Southern Stag]

It would appear that problems are occurring again in the Maidenhead area. Lots of fast services have been cancelled, back down to a similar level of service as to last week.

[mjones]

If the government has any sense they'll insist that there is no premium charged for using HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), as doing so makes no sense at all. If you charge a premium for using HS2 you'll put people off using it and have to run more fast services on conventional lines, which will mean less capacity will be freed up.

Agree 100%.  Witness the problems with the M6 toll road.  Charge a premium to use it and few people do so now they are talking about widening the M6 at great expense to solve a problem which the toll road ought to have done. 

All the HS2 documents make clear that demand modelling etc is on the assumption that premium fares wouldn't be charged. It wouldn't make sense anyway- it will greatly increase the supply of seats, which the operator would want to fill.

[bobm]

It would appear that problems are occurring again in the Maidenhead area. Lots of fast services have been cancelled, back down to a similar level of service as to last week.

Would appear so. Just arrived at Paddington after being talked past two signals on the Up Main. We also played nip and tuck with an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) on the Up Relief. I regret to say they won! 

Arrived into Paddington 18 minutes late after being 10 late off Reading.

[Red Squirrel]

The current Government are rather stuck with HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) unless they are prepared to eat humble pie (and Cameron's eating enough of that in the wake of the floods and I suspect he and his mate George don't do humble very well).

Apart from Dawlish, I'd use the money on more widespread electrification including Cross-Country routes. On Dawlish itself, I'm persuaded, having looked at other people's posts that the best solution is to go inland from Starcross to Teignmouth following the old GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) solution and leave a single line through Dawlish itself. I can see the heritage attraction in summer - perhaps the steam mob at Kingswear might be interested since they're used to running a "heritage" railway with colour light signals!

Sorry to bang on, but there goes that misconception again: 'I'd use the money on...' What money? The money that they're going to borrow for HS2? That would be like taking out a mortgage to buy a house and then spending it on a Ferrari (or a 45xx, or whatever floats your boat) - you just can't do it, it would be fraud.

It is entirely possible that those who oppose HS2 might win their argument - but if they do it will not free up a penny to spend on anything else.

[stebbo]

I'm well aware the government needs to borrow money for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) - as it does for many things. All governments borrow, some more than others and some too much. Unless you're in the fortunate position of Norway, you need to borrow. This is one of the points about Keynesian economics. Still let's not bang on down that road.

So my point is instead of borrowing a large amount for HS2, borrow a smaller amount for the improvement of the existing infrastructure (or divert money from the overseas aid we give to China and the like).

[NickB]

Despatch at Paddington tonight was a car crash of epic proportions. Firstly, all screens were offline so there was no information at all.
Once restored we were sent to platform 3 for the 18.30 to Weston. The HST^▸ (High Speed Train) there was overcrowded to a stupid and dangerous extent.
Two minutes before departure we were told the calling plan had changed resulting in a mass exodus and concourse stampede.

Publish the trains that are running and stick to it please. This is beyond a joke and is dangerous at times.

[BBM]

I have had enough. I have well and truly had it up to here.

My usual 1706 to Westbury-or-wherever-the-terminus-is-today was cancelled. Nothing on the board at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) stopping at TWY^▸ (Twyford station) although at about 1700 the 1657 stopper appeared as 'delayed'. So I got the 1703 to EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) to RDG^‡(resolve). Progress past White Waltham wasn't quite as bad as I feared but the last few miles from west of TWY were a stagger. Arrival at RDG was at 1755 in P9.

I ran over to P15 for the 1757 stopper but no sign of it. It disappeared from the boards, the next being the 1818 from P13. I checked Real Time Trains and the 1757 was shown as departing P14 at 1808. So I went there where a 3-car Turbo arrived from the west. Driver got out, said he was going no further - but a despatcher told him otherwise! So the train became the 1808 stopper which left at 1814 past a thronged P13 waiting for the 1818. But still things weren't finished - a DBS^» (Deutsch Bahn Schenker - UK^▸ (United Kingdom) website) freight was let out before us and we arrived at TWY at about 1828, the same time as the 1657 from PAD which looked dangerously overcrowded.

My blood pressure can stand it no more. For God's sake sort this out NOW!!!!

[thetrout]

I'm booked on the 20:45 London Paddington - Bristol Temple Meads tonight... Tell me it's not so?!?!?!

[lbraine]

On 19:03 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-EXE - 2 mins late off, but good time pass Maidenhead. Approaching Twyford at speed.

Think problem has been cleared

[BBM]

On 19:03 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-EXE - 2 mins late off, but good time pass Maidenhead. Approaching Twyford at speed.

Think problem has been cleared

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have tweeted: "Power supply to signals at Maidenhead has been fixed but there will still be delays of up to 60 minutes." Sadly the problem just had to happen in time for the evening rush, Sodde's Law! My journey wasn't all that slow past the affected area, probably the bigger problem was the lack of trains leaving PAD at around 1700.

[Electric train]

Despatch at Paddington tonight was a car crash of epic proportions.

The crash happened much earlier than this, I was on the 16:12 ex Padd which departed at 16:27 as a 2 car 165 (normally a 5 car) there had already been a couple of cancellations on the locals.

The flow of information was to say the least .... abysmal now wonder FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are in to top league of most disliked train operators