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Author Topic: Franchise specification for rolling stock  (Read 15787 times)
ellendune
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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2014, 19:28:05 »

Sorry I have not seen any designs for the cross rail trains so I am at a disadvantage here to those who have had some sort of preview of trains that the tenderers are still designing.  While I have seen the brief A4 briefing note issued by Cross Rail (rather short on detail) I have not seen the tender specification (which is only the minimum requirement) either,  Can anyone tell me where any of this detail is available.

Or is much of this pure speculation?
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Network SouthEast
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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2014, 20:42:44 »

There isn't much in the public domain about Crossrail because the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) isn't acting in the procurement, but TfL» (Transport for London - about) are.

However, there are reports that the winning Crossrail rolling stock bidder will be announced this week, so watch this space!
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paul7575
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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2014, 20:43:35 »

The Crossrail briefing note is my source - it clearly reports the requirement is for 450 seats per 10 car train, which would have to be predominantly 2+2 given 20m vehicles.  That's an average of 45 seats per carriage, most having more than 45 because the DDA» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) carriages (probably 2) will have significantly less.  (In my opinion, by the way, those suggesting Crossrail will be 'just like an LO 378' are wrong because you can only get about 15-18 seats per side in a longitudinal layout like 378s have have.)

So 450 means a lower average number of seats per carriage than either the 8 car (416) or 12 car (654) published numbers for Thameslink.

Paul
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ellendune
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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2014, 20:58:00 »

So if there are 450 seats per 10 car train, how much of the route will passenger be standing.  If is was all the way then no one would get on at the inner sub=urban stations. 
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paul7575
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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2014, 21:06:38 »

So if there are 450 seats per 10 car train, how much of the route will passenger be standing.  If is was all the way then no one would get on at the inner sub=urban stations. 

Well the same fact sheet gives an overall capacity of 1500, so I assume the majority will always be standing.  I'm sure TfL» (Transport for London - about) are planning this on a similar basis to the tube generally, I don't think national rail norms will apply at all.   Another reason it is the wrong train for Reading.

Paul

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Southern Stag
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2014, 01:28:24 »

Well all those making calls for Crossrail to Reading need to be aware that their trains will have relatively less seats than the Thameslink 700s, no toilets, and they'll be 10 mph slower.   (As currently specified.)

Paul
But Crossrail trains are specified for the same top speed as the lines they run on. The GWML (Great Western Main Line) Relief lines are the fastest section of track they'll run on, so 90mph is the maximum they will need. It gives the best possible trade off between top speed and acceleration.

So if there are 450 seats per 10 car train, how much of the route will passenger be standing.  If is was all the way then no one would get on at the inner sub=urban stations. 

Well the same fact sheet gives an overall capacity of 1500, so I assume the majority will always be standing.  I'm sure TfL» (Transport for London - about) are planning this on a similar basis to the tube generally, I don't think national rail norms will apply at all.   Another reason it is the wrong train for Reading.

Paul


I don't see why they're the wrong train for Reading. All they're going to replace is Turbos, which hardly offer luxurious standards of comfort. Crossrail in effect replaces the current relief line service, except it doesn't because it terminates at Maidenhead. So it means that a half-hourly shuttle is needed between Slough and Reading. If you extend Crossrail through to Reading you remove the need for that shuttle. Extending Crossrail to Reading is only going to lead to marginally longer journeys on the trains, but any passengers using to Crossrail to Reading or Twyford may well be saved the need to change trains. Even if, hopefully, Crossrail extends to Reading it's never going to become the main Reading-London option. At most you'll be extending Maidenhead-Central London journeys to Twyford-Central London journeys, but I'm sure you wouldn't find Twyford passengers complaining about their new through trains to destinations across Central London.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2014, 11:59:09 »

Because they need seating?.....
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broadgage
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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2014, 13:12:13 »

Because they need seating?.....

Seating is now VERY last year !
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2014, 20:01:40 »

I must say that I commend your sense of humour, broadgage - and your turn of phrase!  Grin
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
TonyK
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2014, 22:45:35 »


Seating is now VERY last year !

Standing is the new sitting, they say.
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Now, please!
trainer
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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2014, 11:54:19 »


Seating is now VERY last year !

Standing is the new sitting, they say.

It may or may not be fashionable, but I must take a stand for sitting.
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TonyK
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« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2014, 22:44:24 »


It may or may not be fashionable, but I must take a stand for sitting.

I'm glad somebody isn't taking this lying down.
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Now, please!
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