Disruption on Monday 23 and Tuesday 24 December 2013

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

I note Easyjet had their staff in today, Christmas Day at Gatwick and laid on extra flights for stranded passengers.

You had your answer previously.

The problem is not the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff or the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Ops staff to run the service it would be the cost of binning the engineering works all of the Christmas work will have been planed for over the last 2 years (if not longer) will have been contracted out certainly in the last year.   There are literally thousands of people contracted to work over the next few days. 

Much of the work if it were binned now at this short notice would cost many millions of pounds and would put some projects (like Crossrail) back years and I do mean years.

I am sure Gatwick would not have opened if it would have delayed their massive refurbishment programme by a year and cost them millions of pounds in compensation to contractors.

Delaying the works by a 24 hours, if that were possible, would have meant lines not reopening on time and delays for travelers at the end of the holiday.  Is this really better?

[TaplowGreen]

You've missed my point completely and I aware that someone attempted to address my previous point - I was referring to any compensation/goodwill payments that might be made, and the lack of alternative arrangements for these passengers who were stranded for hours - to preserve the feelings of some, this was not implying any criticism of their beloved TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) for failing to arrive on time in horrendous conditions, more the plight of their customers, with whom they have entered into a contract, when they are stranded and/or massively delayed.

My observation re: Easyjet was just that - they innovated and adopted a "can do" attitude, they asked themselves "what can we do for our customers" and came up with a solution.

The major Airports, like most important services with the almost unique exception of the railways , do not shut up shop for 48 hours over Christmas, they realise life goes on, despite maintenance works, so for Gatwick it wasn't an issue.

Even the Tube is running on Boxing Day, albeit having narrowly avoided the traditional festive RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) strike with a bribe.

[ellendune]

The people left stranded at Taunton, we understand were not left to their own devices there were FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff with them trying to help.  And they did get a coach in the morning. Getting Coaches at 1:00 am is surely not reasonable, but they managed it the following morning. And before you say it. Hotels for a whole crowded train at that time in Taunton is surely not realistic either.

Whether they compensate those affected is up to FGW and they have not said anything.  All that has been said in this thread is that the rules do not require them to compensate.

[Timmer]

I'm pretty sure in extreme circumstances like these train operating companies use their discretion and give those involved a bit extra on top of the usual full refund. I know that following major delays on East Coast recently those who were on trains that were heavily delayed (10 hours +) were refunded and given some first class tickets.

As is pointed out earlier they don't have to do this but compassion usually wins out at times of major disruption.

[Electric train]

In the case of the train stranded at Taunton being on the train whilst not the most comfortable of places was possibly the safest place overnight, hopefully FGW^▸ (First Great Western) provided hot drinks and snacks.

The airlines more often than not do not cover themselves in glory how many time have we seen news footage of passengers sleeping on the floors of airports. 

[TonyK]

My observation re: Easyjet was just that - they innovated and adopted a "can do" attitude, they asked themselves "what can we do for our customers" and came up with a solution.

Whereas the rail companies, faced with the physical impossibility of running trains, adopted a "Can't do" attitude? If easyPeasy were to be grounded once more by a new volcanic ash cloud, I'm sure the railways would step up to the plate to ferry pax from Bristol or Gatwick to Edinburgh or Newcastle, there to be lauded for their "Can do" attitude. The real difference is to be seen in the work done over Christmas to prepare the way for a recovery from this recent inconvenience.

[ellendune]

In the case of the train stranded at Taunton being on the train whilst not the most comfortable of places was possibly the safest place overnight, hopefully FGW^▸ (First Great Western) provided hot drinks and snacks.

It is reported that they did

No longer really 'news', but just for the record - from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Dan Paynes, from First Great Western, said: "We kept people warm and fed and watered through the night and we got them on their way this morning. Our staff on the trains were superb. We kept passengers as informed as we could. Unfortunately, we were hoping the water would subside so we could run the train to its final destination but that wasn't to be. Nobody wants to be stuck on a train overnight. We're very grateful to those customers for their patience and understanding."

[JayMac]

Those passengers were patient and understanding. Evidenced by the lack of vitriol directed at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) on social media despite the length of the delay. I'm fairly sure that, with the all the advance warnings of possible disruption, passengers were relatively stoic. Being during the season of goodwill probably helped as well.

Compare and contrast with the delay to a FGW service in August when a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) suffered a fractured air-pipe (cause unknown yet as far as I'm aware). FGW were pilloried across social and news media following that incident.

[broadgage]

The passengers heavily delayed at Taunton were lucky to be on an old and diesel powered train.

Would have been much worse on a new, shorter and therefore heavily loaded train without toilets or catering.

And consider how much worse it will be when the route is electrified ! At least some services ran over part of the route, and others made to stations such as Taunton.

On an electric railway the wires would have come down at multiple locations and probably nothing would move for days.

To be stuck overnight on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) at Taunton, with heating, lighting, toilets, and some catering, would be exceedingly inconvenient, but these things happen.
To be stuck overnight on a modern EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), standing up in the cold and dark, without toilets or refreshments, is an EMERGENCY that could well end in loss of life.

[Electric train]

The passengers heavily delayed at Taunton were lucky to be on an old and diesel powered train.

Would have been much worse on a new, shorter and therefore heavily loaded train without toilets or catering.

And consider how much worse it will be when the route is electrified ! At least some services ran over part of the route, and others made to stations such as Taunton.

On an electric railway the wires would have come down at multiple locations and probably nothing would move for days.

To be stuck overnight on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) at Taunton, with heating, lighting, toilets, and some catering, would be exceedingly inconvenient, but these things happen.
To be stuck overnight on a modern EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit), standing up in the cold and dark, without toilets or refreshments, is an EMERGENCY that could well end in loss of life.

The IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s that, may, replace the London - West County HST's will be bi-mode that is electric and diesel so not get stranded with out power or the ability to move, even the pure electric IEP's will have diesel generator sets on board to provide "hotel services" and the ability to move the train at 30mph.

[lordgoata]

and the ability to move the train at 30mph.

But they won't be moving far if the overhead lines are littered all over the lines in front and behind! Will be interesting (assuming one is not stuck on said train) to see how all the electrified lines cope with storms like these, of course I am not expecting the structures to just collapse, but the potential tree damage to the cables themselves etc, is surely going to be quite high.

[Electric train]

and the ability to move the train at 30mph.

But they won't be moving far if the overhead lines are littered all over the lines in front and behind! Will be interesting (assuming one is not stuck on said train) to see how all the electrified lines cope with storms like these, of course I am not expecting the structures to just collapse, but the potential tree damage to the cables themselves etc, is surely going to be quite high.

Usually when the wires are ripped down this tends to be localised, might be a few miles but it tends not to be lots of rip downs.   The GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") system is a different design to that of previous UK^▸ (United Kingdom) systems, GWML is not using headspans; one of the reason there is so much road over rail bridge replacement is to get the wire height to remain constant and not to keep dipping down, even the neutral sections being used on the GWML are likely to be a radically different approach to that on the rest of the UK, the last major failure on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) at Tallington was due to a due a neutral section component failure.

[Network SouthEast]

^^^ What Electric Train says!

When was the last time the wires fell down on HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel)? OHLE engineers have learnt from the past.

Whilst there are always exceptions (like the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 159 fleet), electric trains are usually more reliable than diesel trains. Although OHLE failure can be severe, even on the East Coast it is still a rare enough event such that it makes headlines when things go wrong. It's not a day to day occurrence.

The Taunton incident involved a diesel train, so what complaining about electric trains proves I do not know!

[SDS]

Even the Tube is running on Boxing Day, albeit having narrowly avoided the traditional festive RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) strike with a bribe.

Actually it's normally ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) drivers that demand triple pay plus a day in Lieu for Boxing Day running. RMT drivers just refuse to cross picket lines.
The tube/National Rail shouldn't be running on Boxing Day or Xmas Day at all, it's just commercialisim forcing it to. I know my contract states I don't have to work any Sundays, Xmas Day, Boxing Day or New Years Day and to be honest I regularly invoke this clause.

[TaplowGreen]

Even the Tube is running on Boxing Day, albeit having narrowly avoided the traditional festive RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) strike with a bribe.

Actually it's normally ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) drivers that demand triple pay plus a day in Lieu for Boxing Day running. RMT drivers just refuse to cross picket lines.
The tube/National Rail shouldn't be running on Boxing Day or Xmas Day at all, it's just commercialisim forcing it to. I know my contract states I don't have to work any Sundays, Xmas Day, Boxing Day or New Years Day and to be honest I regularly invoke this clause.

"Commercialism" is an odd word to choose to describe people wishing to see their families/friends, socialise, attend major sporting events etc etc but point taken re: sales etc.......I think your reference to your contract is closer to the mark however......and very lucky you are to have such a contract!