The day FGW Suggested Split Ticketing...!

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

I posted the following on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s Facebook Page this morning:

Hi,

I'd be interested to know what your official policy or implemented method is for purchasing a First Class Ticket, for a route which offers First Class Accommodation for a significant portion if not ALL of the journey, But no First Class Fare actually exists?

Take Weymouth - Penzance via Yeovil. With a Disabled Railcard an SOR via Yeovil = ^60.40

But no FCR, FSR^▸ (First Scot Rail) or FOR options for the same journey... First Class being available from Castle Cary - Penzance, A Journey time of 4 hours!

In the days of British Rail, a multiplier of Standard Class Fare x 50% (1.5) used to exist for this very reason. Using that calculation if this is still how it's done, I would WILLINGLY give you ^90.60 for that journey.

Sadly, Weymouth - Penzance is not the only "anomaly" of where a First Class Fare doesn't exist, when really, there should be... Thinking about it, I can name more than a dozen of both short and long distance routes!

So FGW, Please, How can I buy a First Class ticket in such a case? Looking to Travel next Thursday (19th December 2013) Thanks

Warm Regards,

thetrout

I had the following reply:

Hi thetrout. I agree it is a little odd that there isn't a fare for that, and will pop a suggestion in for something along those lines. However at present there isn't such an arrangement for a fare to be purchased. If you are travelling on a weekend you'll be able to buy a first upgrade, otherwise the only option is to buy split tickets. Dan

So a few points here:

• On Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holiday I can travel First Class but not during the week!
• FGW seemed to imply that a Thursday is a weekend day (Admittedly playing more than devils advocate there!)
• Posters at FGW Stations suggest Penalty Fares for Standard Class Passengers Travelling in First Class Accommodation. In this case it would be twice the First Class Anytime Single Fare... How can this be enforced when such a fare doesn't even exist?!
• I offered FGW ^90 and they declined my offer

The worst thing about this all?

When searching for a fare, I found another route which offers a First Class Off-Peak Return with restriction code WG. There is no First Class Anytime Return There is however a Standard Anytime Return... So I travel First Class in the morning peak during the restricted times and am told I need to pay an excess... To what ticket am I to excess to

[ChrisB]

I thought you were able to use 1st class as technically de-restricterd where a 1st class fare isn't available? As you point out, you can't be excessed nor can you be charged a penalty fare where the fare doesn't exist.

I'd be willing personally to sit in there & take my chances. It is the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) that is at complete fault for not setting the fare. Are FGW^▸ (First Great Western) the fare-setter for that journey?

[thetrout]

I thought you were able to use 1st class as technically de-restricterd where a 1st class fare isn't available? As you point out, you can't be excessed nor can you be charged a penalty fare where the fare doesn't exist.

I'd be willing personally to sit in there & take my chances. It is the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) that is at complete fault for not setting the fare.

Was thinking the same thing... I was planning to book at the ticket office and ask for a note to say I couldn't be sold a ticket for the class of travel I wanted which is not a fault of my own. As I would be willing to pay. So I'm either tempted to take my chances and see what happens or split the ticket. Personally speaking, I should NOT have to split the ticket because FGW^▸ (First Great Western) cannot offer a product if I want.

I think it is also reasonable to say that FGW in some cases take a dim view on ticket splitting, so I think (playing devils advocate again) it is particularly vindictive of them to suggest this because it suits them. I might even go as far as to suggest that their proposed work around (I should stress was probably offered in good faith) is an admission that they are completely at fault.

Are FGW the fare-setter for that journey?

Yes. Very much so.

[paul7575]

I thought you were able to use 1st class as technically de-restricterd where a 1st class fare isn't available? A

I think the rule is solely that if the public timetable defines a service as having no first class accommodation and a train with first shows up, then you can use it.

But not in the case of a fare problem.

[JayMac]

This situation is not unique to this flow, nor to First Great Western.

The suggested workaround seems absolutely fine to me. Split the journey into parts that allow for both the Standard Class only part of the trip and the part that has 1st Class accommodation available.

The use of split ticketing is codified in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, which sets out the rights and obligations for both the operator and passenger undertaking a rail journey. In this case the best option for both parties is to use split tickets. I see nothing wrong with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) suggesting this.

'Vindictive' is rather a strong word to use when FGW have suggested the best ticketing option for the particular journey. An option that complies with the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage).

As to using 1st Class accommodation, on a Standard Class ticket, for part of a journey when there is no 1st Class fare for the whole journey, then there is nothing explicit in the NRCoC on this, or in any other publications as far as I'm aware. It's not something I'd recommend doing.

Even the supposed 'rule' that paul7755 mentions isn't codified anywhere as far as I'm aware.

[thetrout]

'Vindictive' is rather a strong word to use when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have suggested the best ticketing option for the particular journey. An option that complies with the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage).

Thanks BNM.

I was being intentionally strong when using the work Vindictive. Whilst you're right and FGW have offered a good solution in good faith, I read far too much into it admittedly. I am minded of others posts that have been made by members when encountering staff who take a negative approach to split ticketing.

So I was being intentionally strong and I speculated that FGW have suggested this because it suits them. I'm minded of the Iver Season Ticket Split and the issues grahame has had with the legitimate usage of a Season to Farnborough which has not been well received by some staff at FGW.

I am probably being over critical and thinking too literally into this. But these parts of your post:

This situation is not unique to this flow, nor to First Great Western.

<snip>

As to using 1st Class accommodation, on a Standard Class ticket, for part of a journey when there is no 1st Class fare for the whole journey, then there is nothing explicit in the NRCoC on this, or in any other publications as far as I'm aware. It's not something I'd recommend doing.

Even the supposed 'rule' that paul7755 mentions isn't codified anywhere as far as I'm aware.

Agreed, not a unique problem to the route or TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company). But with regards to the NRCoC as you mention, perhaps there should be a clause that states how to resolve this issue, perhaps selling an excess based on a zone area or a multiplier rate of between 1.25 and 2.00 depending on the First Class Perks offered.

[ChrisB]

The solution would be to set a 1st class fare.

I can't see how you could be penalised. They can't show evasion, as there is no fare to evade. You can't be penalty fared either, as there is no fare you've avoided, and in any case you have a Standard class ticket. I guess they could ask you to move out, and call the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) if you didn't?