Can we have Sheffields 2nd hand rails and trams in Bristol instead of metrobus ?

[whole diary]

[chuffed]

Government invests in the future of the Sheffield Supertram





Organisation:
Department for Transport
Page history:Published  4 December 2013 Policy:Improving local transport Topics:Local government+ 2 othersMinister:Baroness Kramer  ...



^5 million for Sheffield Supertram light rail system.





Baroness Kramer with the supertram





Supertram tracks are set to be replaced thanks to government funding, Transport Minister, Baroness Kramer has announced during a visit to Sheffield.

South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive (SYPTE) is set to receive ^5 million to replace the track on the Sheffield Supertram light rail system. By replacing the rail, Supertram can continue its current contribution to the local economy and fulfil its growing role in the regeneration of key areas of the Sheffield City Region.

Transport Minister, Baroness Kramer said:


^An efficient and reliable transport system is critical to any city. The Sheffield Supertram network is an important local feature: it contributes significantly to the growth of the local economy and provides reliable and frequent links to many of the key employment, regeneration and development areas in Sheffield.

^The funding we are providing demonstrates this government^s commitment to providing local communities with access to jobs.^

While in Sheffield Baroness Kramer also visited the site of the planned Tinsley Viaduct which will form part of the ^28 million Bus Rapid Transit scheme that will improve bus links between the city and Rotherham.

South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive is set to receive ^5 million to replace life expired sections of rail within street running elements of the Sheffield Supertram light rail system.

David Young, SYPTE Deputy Interim Director General, said:


^We are pleased to welcome the minister to south Yorkshire and in particular her announcement of government funding to support the Phase 1 renewal of the worn Supertram rails.

^We are also pleased to be able to show Baroness Kramer the site of both the Bus Rapid Transit and Tram-Train projects, the reasons why we need to replace the Supertram rails, and the successful multi-modal interchange at Meadowhall.^

The funding announced today (4 December 2013) is a one-off payment to South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive. The works will be delivered by SYPTE in partnership with Stagecoach (the operators) and Sheffield City Council (SCC^‡(resolve)).

[JayMac]

No chance. What with scrap metal prices these days. 

[TonyK]

It would be nice! They are being replaced for a reason - tram-train, but not just because of that. The rails are worn, having had 20 years of use, but would still be serviceable for a few years more yet. There were already plans for a 5-year replacement programme for 22Km of embedded rail. The tram-train vehicles recently ordered for the project to link Sheffield to Rotherham need a different rail profile (55G2 as opposed to the current 35G-TF). This allows the tram-trains to have a larger wheel flange, essential on NR^» (Network Rail - home page) points. Intersting reading can be found here.

My hope is that it is such an instant success that not even Bristol can be left without similar provision.

Why a Bust Rabid Transit connecting the same two points?

[trainer]

Unfortunately, of the light rail (LR) schemes in England, AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) Sheffield was the one one frought with most issues during construction and the first few years of operation.  (In Scotland it's Edinburgh: no further comment). I believe a large number of businesses in one of the main thoroughfares (West Street for those who know the area) went bust during construction and attributed their demise to it.  The City Council then removed a lot of housing from around one of the lines and left it bereft of potential income and the deregulation of the buses meant that there was nothing to be done to stop parallel bus services continuing along the lines.

I mention this not to rubbish the system which now performs well and Bristol would do well to emulate, but to remind us all that even those of us who are out-and-out supporters of an LR system for the West of England must be aware of the potential hazards and learn from the errors of others.

Chuffed, I know, makes his point in the title of this thread with his tongue in his cheek, but the substantive point is well made: BRT^▸ (Bus Rapid Transit) vs tram - no contest in terms of value for money, attractiveness to new riders and long-term benefits. Tram (-train) everytime in urban areas.

[ellendune]

There would be no point in installing second hand rails since the cost of installing them would be far more than the rails.  Far cheaper in whole life terms to install new rails and not have to replace them so soon.

[TonyK]

There would be no point in installing second hand rails since the cost of installing them would be far more than the rails.  Far cheaper in whole life terms to install new rails and not have to replace them so soon.

Very true. Old rails tend to end up either on heritage lines or in scrap yards.

Trainer's point is well made,although Sheffield was to a large extent the prototype from which the lessons were learned by others. Part of the original idea was to link steel works to an estate of high rise flats, but shortly after the supertram opened, the former closed and the latter was demolished. For some years, the trams ran through a wasteland, although no more.

I have been following the extension of the Manchester Metrolink through my birth town, Oldham, to Rochdale. It hasn't been without incidents or dissent, but businesses have by and large hung on, and there seems to be some evidence of regeneration already. The removal of the former rail service was bemoaned by many in the letters page and comments of the Oldham Chronicle for the three years it took to build, voices that quickly changed their tune when it opened. The rail line was under funded, and was in need of complete replacement, something that may have led to closure. The nay-sayers didn't take that into account.

The same is proving true of the route through the town centre. Voices that were "agin it" are beginning to sing praises.

I rode Metrolink during a visit to the land of my fathers in October. We went to visit the rellies in Blackpool, and took First Transpennine to Piccadilly - very nice ride in a 175, with announcements over the PA^▸ (Public Address) like "Please have tickets, passes, and any other travel related paraphernalia ready for inspection", and Mrs FTN being referred to as "Love" by all staff, so you knew you were in Lancashire. From there, we went to Media City by tram, then the Imperial War Museum, before getting the tram back towards Manchester Centre. The PID on board told us when to change for Oldham. We disembarked, the tram went, our tram for Oldham pulled up within a minute, and off we went, Our pass, bought at PIC, covered all trams and buses of two different companies that we used. It was wonderful to see a modern integrated transport system in action. Even Mrs FTN was impressed.

The temporary line following the old Oldham loop line through Mumps is about to close - early next year - and driver training through the town centre starts next week.

We're getting a bust rabid transit route in Bristol, which is nothing more than a cover story for a big road building scheme, underpinned by consultants' reports straight out of Hans Christian Andersen, or more likely the brothers Grimm. But then, Bristol isn't a huge thriving metropolis like Oldham, is it?