John Redwood on the way railway managements treat passengers

[whole diary]

[grahame]

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2013/11/25/why-are-railway-managements-so-unpleasant-to-passengers

I have been using the railways to visit cities around the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) to make some speeches. One of the things that comes over most strongly to me is the negative and aggressive approach they take to their customers in many of their official announcements.

On Wigan station recently they kept repeating an announcement telling passengers they should not smoke on the station. They told us that the station included the ticket office, the entrance, the toilets and the platforms, in case we did not understand what no smoking on the station meant. They told us we would be fined if we disobeyed. There was no offsetting announcement wishing us a good journey, telling us of the station^s facilities, inviting us to use the waiting room out of the wind or saying there was a coffee place.

Posted under "Smoke and mirrors" ... how do you feel you and other passengers should be treated?

When I go into my local supermarket I am not confronted by announcements telling me to avoid shoplifting, to pay the full stated price or instructing me that I must not smoke.

[BerkshireBugsy]

I recently spent some time on a journey which involved a change at Stratford (East London)

There was announcement which went something like "smoking is not permitted anywhere on thus station. Please extinguish all cigarettes immediately "

I didn't know if  this was an "randomly timed" announcement or was triggered by someone being spotted smoking by a member of staff


Given that some users of stations don't seem to understand where smoking is and isn't permitted I don't personally have a problem with these announcements but that is just my opinion

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm.  Being pedantic for a moment ( ),

"Please extinguish all cigarettes immediately "

would seem to encourage anyone smoking a cigar or pipe to simply ignore that instruction?

[BerkshireBugsy]

Hmm.  Being pedantic for a moment ( ),

"Please extinguish all cigarettes immediately "

would seem to encourage anyone smoking a cigar or pipe to simply ignore that instruction?

When I wrote that I did wonder how long the reference to "only" cigarettes would be noticed

To be honest I can't remember what the exact wording was - but I think you get my point

[phile]

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2013/11/25/why-are-railway-managements-so-unpleasant-to-passengers

I have been using the railways to visit cities around the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) to make some speeches. One of the things that comes over most strongly to me is the negative and aggressive approach they take to their customers in many of their official announcements.

On Wigan station recently they kept repeating an announcement telling passengers they should not smoke on the station. They told us that the station included the ticket office, the entrance, the toilets and the platforms, in case we did not understand what no smoking on the station meant. They told us we would be fined if we disobeyed. There was no offsetting announcement wishing us a good journey, telling us of the station^s facilities, inviting us to use the waiting room out of the wind or saying there was a coffee place.

Posted under "Smoke and mirrors" ... how do you feel you and other passengers should be treated?

When I go into my local supermarket I am not confronted by announcements telling me to avoid shoplifting, to pay the full stated price or instructing me that I must not smoke.

I assume there were "No Smoking" Signs/Notices displayed.    There is no need for anything else then.

[BandHcommuter]

I have had similar thoughts to John Redwood. (Gosh, that's a sentence I never thought I'd write) 

The railway is steeped in rules, and I do feel that there are occasions where the industry can go a little far in dealing with potential or real transgressors, to the extent of making us all feel guilty! It might be that a rules-based culture comes from the necessity of applying rules to ensure operational safety, and in the past this culture seeped through into the way the industry dealt with its customers. Things are now much better than they were in my early train-travelling years, and the behaviours of many customer-facing staff on the railway are up with any best-in-class customer service organisation.

It is not yet universal. I think for example of the chap in the train buffet the other day, who said over the PA^▸ (Public Address) in somewhat insistent terms that "first class passengers must show their tickets before ordering or they will be charged". I knew my place and dutifully obeyed.

[John R]

That's because one get given a different cup of coffee if it's free. So if someone turns up, asks for a coffee, gets given a "paid for" one and then presents their first class ticket, the buffet host has a cup of coffee that he can't use. I suspect usage is determined by the number of cups, so it will look as though he's one coffee short in the till at the end of the shift.

In the smoking example, I've certainly seen examples where a message is tannoyed following a report of illegal activity, both smoking and riding bikes. So that seems reasonable enough.

I guess the railway is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Don't tell people that only full fare tickets are valid and there wll be complaints that people weren't told. I've never found Redwood's posts to be particularly sympathetic to the rail industry. I suspect he would have been a strong advocate of Serpell's plans 30 years ago to close most of the network down. 

[Electric train]

I am shocked that John Redwood even consider using public transport

[BerkshireBugsy]

In the smoking example, I've certainly seen examples where a message is tannoyed following a report of illegal activity, both smoking and riding bikes. So that seems reasonable enough.

At my local station passengers waiting for trains know that it's not right to smoke on the platform so stand on the platform with their head over the fence and smoke like that.

T

[Super Guard]

That's because one get given a different cup of coffee if it's free. So if someone turns up, asks for a coffee, gets given a "paid for" one and then presents their first class ticket, the buffet host has a cup of coffee that he can't use. I suspect usage is determined by the number of cups, so it will look as though he's one coffee short in the till at the end of the shift.

You are correct, as coffee machine counts are done on every single trip.

[ellendune]

That's because one get given a different cup of coffee if it's free. So if someone turns up, asks for a coffee, gets given a "paid for" one and then presents their first class ticket, the buffet host has a cup of coffee that he can't use. I suspect usage is determined by the number of cups, so it will look as though he's one coffee short in the till at the end of the shift.

You are correct, as coffee machine counts are done on every single trip.

This is where the system is at fault not the people operating it.  If the management thought these things through they might find ways of doing things that do not lead to these ridiculous customer unfriendly practices. 

[John R]

That's because one get given a different cup of coffee if it's free. So if someone turns up, asks for a coffee, gets given a "paid for" one and then presents their first class ticket, the buffet host has a cup of coffee that he can't use. I suspect usage is determined by the number of cups, so it will look as though he's one coffee short in the till at the end of the shift.

You are correct, as coffee machine counts are done on every single trip.

This is where the system is at fault not the people operating it.  If the management thought these things through they might find ways of doing things that do not lead to these ridiculous customer unfriendly practices. 

I don't find it particularly customer unfriendly. It's explained clearly what I have to do if I want a complementary coffee, and so I do it.  The only suggestion I would make is that they could put a notice on the counter facing first class at times when there is no at seat service.  Then if anyone approaches from first, they should hopefully see it.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Posting here in a purely personal capacity, rather than as an admin: I've always found this youtube clip rather amusing ... 

[BandHcommuter]

That's because one get given a different cup of coffee if it's free. So if someone turns up, asks for a coffee, gets given a "paid for" one and then presents their first class ticket, the buffet host has a cup of coffee that he can't use. I suspect usage is determined by the number of cups, so it will look as though he's one coffee short in the till at the end of the shift.

You are correct, as coffee machine counts are done on every single trip.

I have no doubt that there are probably rational and logical reasons  for first class passengers needing to be identifiable so that they receive whatever the train company deems them to be entitled to. However, many (most) buffet stewards manage to cope with this complexity without barking orders over the pa in somewhat officious terms.

As an aside, I've always struggled with the concept that passengers in first class have to put up with a different and inferior product range from the buffet (compared with the items which can be bought) just because the refreshments are complimentary (or effectively included in the premium price of the ticket). Is it because the management are concerned that buffet staff might be on the fiddle, and will therefore only let them give away uncontrolled stock of very low value? On the rare occasions that I travel first class I pay a significant premium, and might reasonably expect the finest quality tea and coffee 

[John R]

That's because one get given a different cup of coffee if it's free. So if someone turns up, asks for a coffee, gets given a "paid for" one and then presents their first class ticket, the buffet host has a cup of coffee that he can't use. I suspect usage is determined by the number of cups, so it will look as though he's one coffee short in the till at the end of the shift.

You are correct, as coffee machine counts are done on every single trip.

I have no doubt that there are probably rational and logical reasons  for first class passengers needing to be identifiable so that they receive whatever the train company deems them to be entitled to. However, many (most) buffet stewards manage to cope with this complexity without barking orders over the pa in somewhat officious terms.

As an aside, I've always struggled with the concept that passengers in first class have to put up with a different and inferior product range from the buffet (compared with the items which can be bought) just because the refreshments are complimentary (or effectively included in the premium price of the ticket). Is it because the management are concerned that buffet staff might be on the fiddle, and will therefore only let them give away uncontrolled stock of very low value? On the rare occasions that I travel first class I pay a significant premium, and might reasonably expect the finest quality tea and coffee 

Bear in mind that most of the time the complementary drinks are served from the trolley. Difficult to see how they  could do the better quality stuff from there. So it would be a bit illogical to then offer the better stuff at weekends when most people are on weekend first.

As a daily first class commuter, I have no problem with the quality of drinks served, nor the arrangements for collection from the buffet when there is no first class host.