Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[SandTEngineer]

I think the underlying principle of the four-tracking is to separate local and through traffic thus adding capacity.  If you run local traffic on the through lines you will reduce their capacity and negate the reasons for the four-tracking.

[Red Squirrel]

I think the underlying principle of the four-tracking is to separate local and through traffic thus adding capacity.  If you run local traffic on the through lines you will reduce their capacity and negate the reasons for the four-tracking.

I understand your point, but as an outside observer it seems to me that one of the bigger problems with the way railways are run these days is their inflexibility and lack of redundancy. Wouldn't retaining the main line platforms at Stapleton Road, together with perhaps a connection to the reliefs just south of Narroways Jct, have allowed greater flexibility?

[metalrail]

Yeah that was my thinking on it too, not for general day to day running but more for redundancy.  The 4 track stretch between Didcot and London springs to mind, where a lot of the local stations in between still have platforms on all 4 lines, but generally only use the relief ones unless there's an operating incident - broken down train, points failure etc

Keeping the new through main lines free is great to free up what will be the new relief lines to run more local services, but as RS points out there doesn't seem to be any redundancy built in which seems like a bit of an oversight, seeing as the whole premise of re-instating the four track was to run more local trains more often

With no connection between the main and reliefs prior to Narroways in the up direction that will mean any issues with the relief lines between there and Dr Days will shut down all Severn Beach line services, plus with more services planned on that line on a greater frequency, and also the introduction of new services on the Henbury loop once the fast trains have been switched to the new main lines, building in redundancy to keep the local trains moving would seem to make more sense, especially as there's no crossovers from the main to relief lines anywhere up Filton Bank that I can see (I may be wrong) as they all seem to switch from relief to main, meaning that after Dr Days the first crossover from main to relief is north of FIT

[SandTEngineer]

Ahem.  The modern day thrusting railway doesn't do 'redundancy', it only does 'just in time' (or in the case of NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), 'just too late')......  

[johnneyw]

A quick update on Stapleton Road Bridge. I was there at about 14.00 today watching the second section being installed. Got there just after 13.30 from Filton Abbey Wood with half an hour to wait for the Severn Riviera Express and the section was just being moved from where it had been stored. By the time I pulled out on the train it was nearly in place.

[Red Squirrel]

By way of answering my own question, I just found Prior Approval Notification 17/05003/RA - 'Prior approval notification of proposed extension of the Stapleton Road footbridge, as part of the Filton Bank Four Tracking rail project' on the Bristol Planning Portal:

All available land to the east of the station is to be filled with an access ramp for the extended footbridge, which will double back on itself three-and-a-half times to achieve the required slope and height. Most of Platform 2 will be filled with another access ramp which only doubles back once, mostly consisting of a long straight run laid out in such a way as to obstruct most of what could become Platform 3. There will be no ramp for Platform 1, presumably because there is level access from here to Belmont Road.

Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

[grahame]

Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

Not sure.   Would need to measure Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon, and I suspect Bridgwater and Weston-super-Mare may be quite long.

[stuving]

Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

Not sure.   Would need to measure Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon, and I suspect Bridgwater and Weston-super-Mare may be quite long.

To be fair, most of the distance is what's already there, going down to Stapleton Road and back up again by a decidedly roundabout route. The Alpine bridge replacing the path across the track bed does add nearly 200 m though, being 6 m up and down at 1:15. The question is, how much is it worth Network Rail spending on a route between the two platforms if it doesn't form part of any likely intended journey?

[Bmblbzzz]

I'd say the footbridge at Stapleton Rd forms part of a lot of intended and actual journeys every day, just not many of them involve a train.

[TonyK]

The question is, how much is it worth Network Rail spending on a route between the two platforms if it doesn't form part of any likely intended journey?

And why not? If there is ever a Greater Bristol Metro or a proper MetroWest Rail with local trains every 10 to 15 minutes, what would be wrong with going Sea Mills to Abbey Wood, as an example, changing at Stapleton Road instead of going all the way to Temple Meads to change? Somebody probably does it already, although in the interesting times when we can predict the arrival of earthquakes with almost the same accuracy as the next train, it takes some balls.

[Red Squirrel]

Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

Not sure.   Would need to measure Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon, and I suspect Bridgwater and Weston-super-Mare may be quite long.

Using the same rough-and-ready calculation, Trowbridge is about 460m; Bradford is under 400m assuming you can get to the south side through the park. Bridgwater is a footling 200m if you start at the station footbridge, rather less if you just want to get from the southern end one platform to the other. Weston-super-Mare - ah, now you're talking! At 650m, Weston comes close to the future Stapleton Road arrangement, and of course it is a clear winner if the gate is locked and you have to go back...

[grahame]

Weston-super-Mare - ah, now you're talking! At 650m, Weston comes close to the future Stapleton Road arrangement, and of course it is a clear winner if the gate is locked and you have to go back...

Stapleton Road is unlikely to be a major interchange until service are frequent and reliable (I think that's called "MetroWest" when it become the logical point to change if you're travelling Clifton to Filton, for example - indeed not only logical but mandated, unless there is an easement that would allow doubling back via Temple Meads.

Weston-super-Mare is less of an interchange; local passengers from Weston Milton and Bedminster to Bridgwater I suppose (and similar journeys) but unsure as to whether there would always / ever be a platform change necessary?   

Further question - TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine).   At Weston, are there ticket purchase facilities on the eastern platform - or would wheelchair / buggie passengers who do not have tickets need to purchase them at the western platform before taking that 650 metre walk?  If so, the distance involved is important for far more that just the connecting passenger!

[Red Squirrel]

Just to add to the fun, the access road from Stapleton Road to Platform 2 (towards BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)) is steeper than 1:12 and is about 140m long. You need to get up that before reaching the luxury of the 1:15 ramp up to the footbridge. The access road is also a mess of potholes and very uneven, but presumably that can be fixed!

[Phantom]

The mother of all platform changes has to be at Gloucester

[TonyK]

Just for the fun of it, I calculated how far someone with a buggy or wheelchair would have to go to get from Platform 1 to Platform 2. By my reckoning it is about 750m - is that a record?

Sounds about right for a skateboard nursery slope. They can hone their skills before tackling the Cenotaph.

The access road is also a mess of potholes and very uneven, but presumably that can be fixed!

Yes. At least in theory.