Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[dfm1a]

stuving, I was referring to the layout post 1970 when Bristol Panel opened.  There were most certainly four tracks from BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to Dr Days then - I've seen the Yellow Perils on the archive in the SRS website.  Thus the pointwork between Dr Days and Lawrence Hill could most certainly have been rationalised to only allow movement from Reliefs to Mains in the Down direction and vice-versa in the Up direction - as has been the case since the track rationalisation in 1984

[Bristolian]

Here's a shot of mine from 1984, one of the last loco movements along the former UFM...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/8675060770/

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

Thanks for those pics Bob, and looking thru the others on your photostream you've linked to there's also some other great ones around BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) and LWH from the 70s and early 80s as it was then.  Great to see!

Thank you very much, Sir. I have a great many more negs to scan, sadly though in most cases I won't have full information, as my notebooks and prints went several years ago .

[stuving]

stuving, I was referring to the layout post 1970 when Bristol Panel opened.  There were most certainly four tracks from BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to Dr Days then - I've seen the Yellow Perils on the archive in the SRS website.  Thus the pointwork between Dr Days and Lawrence Hill could most certainly have been rationalised to only allow movement from Reliefs to Mains in the Down direction and vice-versa in the Up direction - as has been the case since the track rationalisation in 1984

If the question this time was "is it worth adding the extra crossovers for a small gain in flexibility that would be rarely used?" - answered quite reasonably no - then in the 70s it would have been "is it worth taking out these existing crossovers that do give a small gain in flexibility even if it would be rarely used?". I can imagine the answer then was yes, though there may have been some further arguments to do with how the tracks from Temple Meads were used at the time, or what was planned then but never happened.

[SandTEngineer]

Dr.Days Bridge Junction prior to Bristol Resignalling






This photograph is dated 02 April 1970 and shows the revised alignment

[martyjon]

There was four tracks from Bristol East to Dr Days and also four tracks from Dr Days to North Somerset Junction with a Main to Relief double junction on this, Rhubarb Curve, also because the line towards Bath was Up, Down (to/from Bristol East Depot Up Yard), Up Main, Down Main. The Up and Down may have been designated either Relief or Reception lines for the Bristol East Depot Up Yard as we had the Bristol East Down Yard with its association Up and Down Reception Lines. Dr Days Bridge Junction Signal Box, as I understand was its full name also had a Mains to Reliefs double junctions in both directions too. Then as we travel up towards Filton we also had Stapleton Road Signal Box which also had Mains to Reliefs in both directions too.

[metalrail]

There was four tracks from Bristol East to Dr Days and also four tracks from Dr Days to North Somerset Junction with a Main to Relief double junction on this, Rhubarb Curve, also because the line towards Bath was Up, Down (to/from Bristol East Depot Up Yard), Up Main, Down Main. The Up and Down may have been designated either Relief or Reception lines for the Bristol East Depot Up Yard as we had the Bristol East Down Yard with its association Up and Down Reception Lines. Dr Days Bridge Junction Signal Box, as I understand was its full name also had a Mains to Reliefs double junctions in both directions too. Then as we travel up towards Filton we also had Stapleton Road Signal Box which also had Mains to Reliefs in both directions too.

Yeah as there were still 4 lines crossing feeder road at that time up to the resignalling weren't there?

[Red Squirrel]

Took a couple of photos this evening, in failing light.

First one is from Constable Road looking south, with what I presume to be one of the 75mph crossovers on the right;
Second is from Constable Road looking north towards Bonnington Walk;
Third is from Bonnington Walk looking over the site of Horfield Halt towards Constable Road, showing the extensive work done on the right hand side of the cutting;
Fourth is from Bonnington Walk looking north towards Filton Abbey Wood, again showing the extensive work done on the side of the cutting.

Still plenty to do!

[johnneyw]

It's looking blimmin' good but yes, still loads to do. Unthinkable of unthinkables, what if unforeseen factors (bad weather for example) means the work is still unfinished at the end of the blockade? Is there a plan B?

[SandTEngineer]

It's looking blimmin' good but yes, still loads to do. Unthinkable of unthinkables, what if unforeseen factors (bad weather for example) means the work is still unfinished at the end of the blockade? Is there a plan B?

Yes.  Carry on Matron.....

[johnneyw]

It's looking blimmin' good but yes, still loads to do. Unthinkable of unthinkables, what if unforeseen factors (bad weather for example) means the work is still unfinished at the end of the blockade? Is there a plan B?

Yes.  Carry on Matron.....

I do feel a little better now.

[DaveHarries]

Last 2 pics show the new signal I noticed installed on the new down main just before Church Rd bridge, with a feather for the avoiding lines from Dr Days to N Somerset junction

On the matter of new signals I notice that a new one has gone in on the new main line at the northern end of Stapleton Road station: I noticed it while a passenger in a car on the M32 earlier. Also it surprises me, looking at the plans of the new layout, that an additional crossover hasn't been put in just south of Narroways Junction so that if, say, a train broke down at Stapleton Road station then trains on the Severn Beach line could be rerouted onto the new main line which would serve as an avoiding route. Would mean a feather being added to signal BL1855 (as I think signal B360, the last signal before the junction for trains coming from Montpelier toward Temple Meads, is now numbered) but would provide flexibility. Similarly an option to route trains on the new northbound line onto the Severn Beach line.

As things are at present (and, by the looks of it, will remain) a broken down train at Stapleton Road brings the whole Severn Beach service to a halt.

Dave

[stuving]

When I referred above to a signal box that had to be removed, it was an earlier Dr Day's Bridge Junction box I was talking about. You can see it on this map of 1912, and it's still there in the 30s on maps with a smaller scale where you can't count tracks exactly. In the pursuit of further unnecessary details about this track alignment, I also found a locking table on s-r-s.org.uk dated Drawn: 2.1932, Issued 10:1956. Tha's suggestive that the reworking of the 1912 layout into the pre-1970 one was planned pre-war, but done afterwards. Then I found a set of 1950s 1:1250 plans on old-maps.co.uk, showing this intermediate layout and suggesting it was in place before 1951 (though note that their maps can't all be dated right).

It's not so obvious from S&TE's pictures, but the current four tracks from Bristol TM^‡(resolve) run to the right (west) of the signal box and over its site. The two tracks you can just see in the top picture connected to the sidings, which were then west of the running lines. That's also where the previous two-track main line ran, with connections to the sidings - then east of the through lines - on the far side of the signal box. That box wasn't there, its precursor was rotated parallel with the loop and would have blocked both the current Down Filton Main and two or more of the pre-1970 lines.

So the through lines were doubled and shifted to the other side of the central signal box site, then back when it was removed, and each time the sidings swapped over too. That's a lot of effort for a rather short life-time, apparently 20-25 years, and not just by today's standards either. Oh, and Dr Day's Bridge itself was realigned around 1955-1960 too.

[SandTEngineer]

Don't rely too much on dates on signalling drawings.  Quite often they were (are) altered some years in advance, or after, works take place.  This especially applies to signalbox diagrams.

[SandTEngineer]

Last 2 pics show the new signal I noticed installed on the new down main just before Church Rd bridge, with a feather for the avoiding lines from Dr Days to N Somerset junction

On the matter of new signals I notice that a new one has gone in on the new main line at the northern end of Stapleton Road station: I noticed it while a passenger in a car on the M32 earlier. Also it surprises me, looking at the plans of the new layout, that an additional crossover hasn't been put in just south of Narroways Junction so that if, say, a train broke down at Stapleton Road station then trains on the Severn Beach line could be rerouted onto the new main line which would serve as an avoiding route. Would mean a feather being added to signal BL1855 (as I think signal B360, the last signal before the junction for trains coming from Montpelier toward Temple Meads, is now numbered) but would provide flexibility. Similarly an option to route trains on the new northbound line onto the Severn Beach line.

As things are at present (and, by the looks of it, will remain) a broken down train at Stapleton Road brings the whole Severn Beach service to a halt.

Dave

Dave, some good points there (pun intended), but you can't cater for every possible scenario, as each comes at a cost that in most cases doesn't 'wash its face' in terms of affordibility and ongoing liability.

[dfm1a]

Prior to 1970, there was an additional crossover(s) at Narroways to take trains onto the Mains from the Reliefs and, if I recall correctly vice-versa.  This was removed when Bristol was resignalled and the Mains were plain-lined instead and controlled by Automatic Signals