Whiteball Tunnel blockade - January / February 2014

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Because of the engineering works I am unable to make a usual journey at Off Peak times for an arrival in Plymouth at 1117. That is, catching the 0913 from Bristol.

There are no published easements to time restrictions for journeys between Bristol and the south-west, so I have been using social media and the telephone to find out whether I can depart Bristol at 0810 to allow an arrival in Plymouth around 1115.

As the 0810 is a CrossCountry service I called them first. They referred me to National Rail Enquiries. National Rail Enquiries said I should speak to FGW^▸ (First Great Western). Enquired of FGW via Facebook and they told me I'd need to speak to CrossCountry!

That left me just a little bit angry. I then telephoned FGW and was told that restrictions have not been lifted, suggesting I ask for permission to travel at the station in the morning, or try the staff on the train.

That doesn't instill me with the slightest bit of confidence.

Without any clear easements in place if effectively means that, not only are passengers inconvenienced by extended journey times and part of the journey by coach, they must also pay for an Anytime ticket to arrive at their destination at the time they normally would with an Off Peak fare.

In my case, already holding an Off Peak ticket, I have to pay an Excess of ^15.85 for the 'privilege' of arriving at my destination at the same time were there no engineering. That's an extra payment for having to leave home earlier, having an extended journey, and having part of that journey on a bus. 

[trainbuff]

Not too much help bignosemac but it would be cheaper to buy an Anytime Single to Taunton, then use you Off Peak ticket for remainder of trip. By the time you are at Taunton it will be off-peak. Of course this is not strictly the way to do it but I bet tickets are rarely asked for on the bus. You could hedge your bets by speaking to the Guard (has to be positioned at rear of train) and ask given the foregoing that you be allowed to travel. If not then ask the Guard if THEY would sell you an anytime ticket.

It is a pain that none of the people you phoned were able to help. They seem as if they understand but cannot officially say anything.

It is just worth asking the Guard. Perhaps you might have to explain to the Barrier staff but is definitely worth a go. After all the Guard is human and will definitely appreciate you asking them first.

Just think it is worth a try.

Let me know if you decide to do that.

[JayMac]

Sadly, the bus one needs to get to Exeter for onward travel leaves Taunton at 0850, which is also before the validity of the Off Peak ticket I hold.

The Anytime Single from Bristol to Exeter is more expensive than the excess payable for Bristol to Plymouth.

I don't intend to pay anything extra as I think it is wrong that a passenger needs to pay more because of engineering.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s justification (a reply on Facebook) for not allowing ticket restriction easements between Bristol and the south-west?

It is usually the case that restrictions remain the same during engineering work, just as fares are not reduced for travelling on replacement buses.

Well, I'm not asking for a reduction in fares because of rail replacement so that's hardly justification for not easing restrictions. And why, if it is usually the case, have FGW changed restrictions on journeys to and from Reading and London to allow similar arrival times when departing at what would otherwise be Peak times?

I will only accept a UFN^‡(resolve) if challenged tomorrow morning and will be robustly challenging any punitive action. However, let me make it clear that I don't suggest anyone else ignores these patently unfair restrictions.

[TonyK]

I will only accept a UFN^‡(resolve) if challenged tomorrow morning and will be robustly challenging any punitive action. However, let me make it clear that I don't suggest anyone else ignores these patently unfair restrictions.

I for one shall be right behind you, BNM (about 48 miles behind you when it matters most). Let's see if commonsense can be allowed to prevail for once.

[andy_89uk]

It is just worth asking the Guard. Perhaps you might have to explain to the Barrier staff but is definitely worth a go. After all the Guard is human and will definitely appreciate you asking them first.

I'm afraid that's not always a given! I was due home on SWT^▸ (South West Trains) from Waterloo to Honiton yesterday, but the SWT line was shut due to 2x fallen trees. We were advised to use the Paddington service instead and that our tickets would still be valid.

Of course, the Paddington line is currently diverted via Yeovil Junction/Honiton anyway. Our train stopped at Honiton for over 10 minutes (single line) but the guard flatly refused to let any Waterloo refugees alight there! We were forced to travel on to Exeter St. Davids where FGW^▸ (First Great Western) promptly laid on a taxi back to Honiton, utter madness!!!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for posting details of that rather startling situation, andy_89uk - may I ask how many of you were caught up in that apparently ludicrous situation? 

And welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, by the way! 

[JayMac]

Of course, the Paddington line is currently diverted via Yeovil Junction/Honiton anyway. Our train stopped at Honiton for over 10 minutes (single line) but the guard flatly refused to let any Waterloo refugees alight there! We were forced to travel on to Exeter St. Davids where FGW^▸ (First Great Western) promptly laid on a taxi back to Honiton, utter madness!!!

Should the Train Manager have been worried about passengers boarding an unadvertised service then he could have easily had all those who were travelling to Honiton alight through one door.

With ticket acceptance already in place for SWT^▸ (South West Trains) passengers to travel from Paddington it shouldn't have taken rocket science from someone in authority to look at the working timetable, note that there was a FGW service booked to make a working timetable stop at Honiton, and make arrangements to allow the handful of passengers to alight there. Further adding to their disrupted journey by taking them through to Exeter and then taxiing back to Honiton just seems bonkers to me.

I await the operational or health and safety excuses as to why one local door could not be opened to allow passengers, already subject to disruption, to alight.

[TonyK]

We were forced to travel on to Exeter St. Davids where FGW^▸ (First Great Western) promptly laid on a taxi back to Honiton, utter madness!!!

May I add my welcome to that of CfN, andy_89uk, as well as my amazement at the turn of events you endured.

[Super Guard]

It is just worth asking the Guard. Perhaps you might have to explain to the Barrier staff but is definitely worth a go. After all the Guard is human and will definitely appreciate you asking them first.

I'm afraid that's not always a given! I was due home on SWT^▸ (South West Trains) from Waterloo to Honiton yesterday, but the SWT line was shut due to 2x fallen trees. We were advised to use the Paddington service instead and that our tickets would still be valid.

Of course, the Paddington line is currently diverted via Yeovil Junction/Honiton anyway. Our train stopped at Honiton for over 10 minutes (single line) but the guard flatly refused to let any Waterloo refugees alight there! We were forced to travel on to Exeter St. Davids where FGW^▸ (First Great Western) promptly laid on a taxi back to Honiton, utter madness!!!

The Guard would have been in hot water had they allowed you off, unless permission had been granted by the Duty Control Manager.  If DCM says no, then it doesn't matter how human the Guard is...

Of course i'm not saying it makes any sense not to make it a special stop, i'm just explaining why the Guard would say no.

[SandTEngineer]

mmmm.  It was a stop booked for crossing purposes only.  The driver would only be obeying signals and if they were off he would go without any RA from the conductor.  Could be nasty if the doors opened.  Don't think there is any door/power interlock on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)???

[BandHcommuter]

If SWT^▸ (South West Trains) were advising their customers to use the re-routed FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service, presumably the correct chain of communication would have been for SWT's control office to contact FGW's control office to request that Honiton was designated as a public stop (assuming, as bignosemac says, that they had established that the train was booked to wait there anyway), and if agreed, FGW control would then make the appropriate communications with the relevant train crew to allow customers to safely alight?

[Southern Stag]

mmmm.  It was a stop booked for crossing purposes only.  The driver would only be obeying signals and if they were off he would go without any RA from the conductor.  Could be nasty if the doors opened.  Don't think there is any door/power interlock on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)???

As it was an HST with slam doors that wouldn't have been the case. If a train with slam doors stops at a station platform it has to be despatched regardless of whether it's booked to call or not, because of the risk of people pulling doors on to the catch. Or on trains without Central Door Locking, the risk that doors will have been opened.

[Timmer]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have published details of changes to ticket restrictions during the works taking place between Taunton and Exeter but no mention of restrictions from Bristol down to the South West:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/~/media/PDF/contents/whiteball-fares-summary-v2.ashx

[JayMac]

Which rather exposes the lie that so many staff have told me: "We don't ease or change restrictions during engineering work."

They do. But with this work it appears that only those travelling to/from the South East can depart early for a same time arrival without paying extra.

Just adds to the gross unfairness of charging extra in some instances. Still slightly seething at this.

And I bottled it this morning. I paid an extra ^10.30 (under protest - made my feelings clear to ticket office staff and the DSM at Bristol TM^‡(resolve)) to leave early enough to pick up a diverted HST^▸ (High Speed Train) at Westbury for an arrival at Plymouth of 1118. Almost the same time as is normal when taking the Off Peak 0913 from Bristol direct. The diverted HST was barely a third full. Perhaps if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) had eased restrictions they may have got a few more bums on seats... 

No doubt there's one of those rail industry money-go-rounds that compensates FGW for lost revenue during the engineering work, leaving them little incentive to retain business by being proactive.

[grahame]

... Could be nasty if the doors opened.  Don't think there is any door/power interlock on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)???

As it was an HST with slam doors that wouldn't have been the case. If a train with slam doors stops at a station platform it has to be despatched regardless of whether it's booked to call or not, because of the risk of people pulling doors on to the catch. Or on trains without Central Door Locking, the risk that doors will have been opened.

But HSTs do have central locking - and indeed they have selective door opening.   So logic suggests that the train manager only needed to open a single door / carriage rather than the whole train, and then there's no chance of the other doors being on the latch.   

However "Don't think there is any door/power interlock on HSTs???" sounds logical considering that the SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) and central locking was added long after the trains were built, and they're now vintage units ... and if there isn't interlocking, then there's presumable a risk of the driver pulling off with only one door open just as Granny Harris ( http://www.britishsurnames.co.uk/1881census/Devon/Honiton ) gets off.