Major change to the National Routeing Guide instructions (09/10/2013)

[whole diary]

[Brucey]

With no advance warning, the NRG instructions now include

This National Routeing Guide may be used to identify permitted routes. Please note, however, that to be valid, any journey not undertaken on a through train or the shortest route MUST be checked using the Journey Planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk, inputting the relevant interchange and via points.

This is, IMO^▸ (in my opinion), a major change as many routes that are valid in the guides are not shown online.

This also means that ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) are free to change the routeing of any ticket at any time without publishing changes in a documented form.

I'm guessing they've implemented this rule to make it easy for routes to be checked.

[JayMac]

That amendment cannot be enforced without the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) also stating that a route allowed by the Routeing Guide must be crossed checked with a journey planner.

ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) are seriously trampling over the rights of passengers and I predict there will be some incidences of major conflict between passengers and staff.

I want to see some evidence of consultation between ATOC and Passenger Focus and ATOC and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about). I suspect however there has been none - both bodies being incredibly supine when it comes to protecting passengers from the worst excesses of TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) pricing managers and their cabal, ATOC.

[Brucey]

There are also changes to the maps and permitted routes.

Some other "loopholes" have also been closed, e.g. the London to Birmingham via. High Wycombe ticket being valid via. Loughborough and Nottingham.

[JayMac]

Closing loopholes is fine when they are patently wrong. That's part of the game for routeing exploiters like me. It's a bit like whack-a-mole though. Another will pop up somewhere else. 

However, closing long standing Permitted Routes, in a fit of pique after being spanked in court, is just childish -  TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)/ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) saying, "It's our ball and were going home."

[Trowres]

PURPOSE OF THE NATIONAL ROUTEING GUIDE
...The National Routeing Guide is incorporated into the data used to support the Journey Planner on the National Rail website...This document provides the background data and process used to determine whether a proposed journey is via a "permitted route".

Therefore, if application of the rules in the routeing guide indicates that a route is permitted, any failure of the Journey Planner to show the route as valid is, by definition, a fault within the JP's implementation of the rules. 

[bobm]

I assume these changes have to have an effective from date. What about people who have already bought tickets for future travel?

[Brucey]

I assume these changes have to have an effective from date. What about people who have already bought tickets for future travel?

The changes are effective immediately, i.e. this morning some routes were valid, this evening they aren't.

As for tickets purchased already, members on other websites (RailUK Forums) are saying that you entered into a contract on the previous edition, so that is what applies.  I have no legal training so cannot comment.

[thetrout]

That amendment cannot be enforced without the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) also stating that a route allowed by the Routeing Guide must be crossed checked with a journey planner.

I completely agree with that. This ridiculous fake new rule assumes that every rail passenger is going to have access to a computer or similar device capable of connecting to the Internet to check the JP...

I assume these changes have to have an effective from date. What about people who have already bought tickets for future travel?

The changes are effective immediately, i.e. this morning some routes were valid, this evening they aren't.

As for tickets purchased already, members on other websites (RailUK Forums) are saying that you entered into a contract on the previous edition, so that is what applies.  I have no legal training so cannot comment.

I have no legal training either, But I would also agree with that. My personal understanding is the contract cannot be changed unilaterally. So either the previous terms and conditions should remain in place for tickets purchased before 09/10/2013 or the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) should provide you with a full refund with no fees applied for renegading on their part of the deal...!

*edited to add*

Of course, there are also instances when the JP brings up possible routes/journeys that are almost certainly wrong... The via Elgin "Bug" was almost certainly one of them that would not be permitted in the routing guide.

[Trowres]

Poor Grahame is going to have much work in trying to explain fares to his Melksham audience. I've just noticed that Melksham to Taunton via Trowbridge and Bristol isn't valid, but Chippenham to Taunton via Melksham Trowbridge and Bristol is. 

[grahame]

Poor Grahame is going to have much work in trying to explain fares to his Melksham audience. I've just noticed that Melksham to Taunton via Trowbridge and Bristol isn't valid, but Chippenham to Taunton via Melksham Trowbridge and Bristol is. 

I have a promotion and marketing meeting tomorrow;  I would suspect that any / all general publicity will provide main-stream advise on ticketing, with just a small footnote section along the lines of

<sub>"do you know that you're allowed to buy a ticket for a longer journey than you make [in most cases].  An example of when you might do this is is you're making a return trip but starting from / coming back to a different station.   For example, if you start at Westbury in the morning and travel to Swindon, but go back to Dilton Marsh in the evening, you can buy a Dilton Marsh to Swindon return which will be cheaper than buying two singles.   Occasionally, buying a ticket for a longer journey than you'll actually be making in both directions can work out cheaper"

and

"You are usually allowed to break your journey on return tickets, and again that can save you money on getting multiple tickets.   You can also travel on multiple tickets for separate parts of a journey - if you have a London to Didcot ticket, you can buy a Didcot to Melksham ticket before you leave London - the booking clerk will be happy to sell it to you - and you don't even have to get off the train at Didcot, but you must travel on one that calls there.   Occasionally, buying tickets in parts can actually work out cheaper."

With a "please check validity and routes before you make journeys using these facilities, as the rail industry  requires you to have correct tickets.  If in doubt, ask.   You may also like to consult our passenger forum at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop where helpful and knowledgeable individuals will explain the rules to the best of their ability"</sub>

All in small print, you will note.    Best thing is to encourage fair regular fares, and many of the TransWilts fares are very fair - indeed bargains!

[Brucey]

There is now a "tool" on the National Rail Enquires website, located here which is headed "Your ticket summary".  Apart from showing an image of a pre-2007 train ticket (one where the time is printed instead of the validity field, a roundel is present and the former BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) region is printed), it is supposed to show you the validity times, group stations and valid routes for any ticket.

Only problem..... it hasn't actually been coded yet

[Brucey]

An update: another new edition of the National Routeing Guide has been issued on 23/12/2013.

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide/

[thetrout]

The content of the Routeing Guide is correct up to 11 September 2013 and the content has been approved by the Department for Transport This guide shows the full range of permitted routes available for use with tickets on the National Rail network. If you are planning a journey we would strongly advise you to make use of the Journey Planner at www.nationalrail.co.uk. Any ticket indicated for use in conjunction with a particular journey when using the Journey Planner will automatically be valid for the route and service indicated.

PLEASE NOTE this guide is of necessity a complex document and the Journey Planner should be used to validate any intended route (including relevant ^via^ points) to ensure that it can be used with your ticket, This is especially necessary if using this guide to identify whether an indirect or unusual route is valid for use.
TO USE THIS GUIDE: Follow the steps below to identify the permitted routes for the journey that you wish to make. Please ensure that you read the instructions on how to use the National Routeing Guide before you begin the search.

My emphasis in bold.

So you find the routeing guide allows the journey. But the journey planner says no. Why have the routeing guide in the first place then eh?!?!

[Brucey]

Yet more changes at ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here).  The Routeing Guide maps are no longer available in a handy downloadable PDF, but now served through the Google Maps API with rather ambiguous connections in many places.

http://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide

[grahame]

Yet more changes at ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here).  The Routeing Guide maps are no longer available in a handy downloadable PDF, but now served through the Google Maps API with rather ambiguous connections in many places.

http://data.atoc.org/routeing-guide

I'm not terribly sure how you can connect at Melksham (see attachment) ... perhaps in preparation for the day when the East - West Link to Weymouth semi-fast train overtakes the Swindon to Bristol via Bradford-on-Avon commuter service every hour?