Bus discrimination case

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

So, your solution? One could clear the lower deck of seating?....downstairs for buggis 7 wheelchairs, upstairs for able-bodied wanting a seat

[LiskeardRich]

There is provision for driver discretion in the ruling.
I'm having a Facebook discussion with two wheelchair user friends. Their interpretations are that a pram should only be enforced to move if it's safe for the baby to be held and the bus has somewhere for the pram to be stowed. They are both of the opinion it's unsafe for say one accompanying adult to hold more than one baby for example, so wouldn't expect twins or more to be moved.

Whilst a victory for disabled in general. I disagree that Mr Paulley has won as his demands have not been agreed by the Supreme Court. One of his original demands was for able bodied standees to be asked to leave a nearly full bus to make way for a wheelchair.

[ChrisB]

They can't be discriminated against is the rule - so if the bus is full & no one is being admitted, that is not discrimination. So he'd never obtain that ruling

[Bmblbzzz]

So, your solution? One could clear the lower deck of seating?....downstairs for buggis 7 wheelchairs, upstairs for able-bodied wanting a seat

You'd need seating downstairs too for people who need to sit but cannot climb stairs. Unless you installed a lift...

[JayMac]

Whilst a victory for disabled in general. I disagree that Mr Paulley has won as his demands have not been agreed by the Supreme Court.

He's won in the sense that he was discriminated against. First Bus did not go far enough in making reasonable adjustments as required by the Equality Act.

One does not demand anything of a court. Mr Paulley wanted First Bus (and, by extension, all bus operators) to go further in their adjustments, and he was entitled seek that when bringing the claim for discrimination. That's not making demands. Weighing up both sides the Supreme Court have ruled what are the reasonable adjustments bus operators should make under the Equality Act. The defendants (First Bus) fell short of this so Mr Paulley's claim was upheld.

He won. Maybe he didn't get everything he wanted. An analogy would be a football team winning 1-0 instead of the 2-0 they would have liked.

[Alan Pettitt]

How times have changed, when I was a bus conductor in the early 70s, no-one would ever have tried to get on the bus with a child still sitting in a push chair, they always folded it up and stored it in the luggage space (usually under the stairs) ( the push chair, not the child!) I believe that if you take a push chair/buggy etc on a train you have to fold it up, so why not on a bus?

[grahame]

Whilst a victory for disabled in general. I disagree that Mr Paulley has won as his demands have not been agreed by the Supreme Court. One of his original demands was for able bodied standees to be asked to leave a nearly full bus to make way for a wheelchair.

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) report I noted

Mr Paulley's solicitor, Chris Fry, said the ruling had fallen short.  "The judgement should have gone further - there's no right as things currently stand to force someone off a bus. So it goes as far as that, but not that far yet."

And - to me - that comes across as a demand for discrimination in favour of the wheelchair user.  When looking at a situation, my wise Dad (who passed away last Sunday) suggested looking at it from the opposite end and seeing how it then looked.  So if a wheelchair user wants to be able to force a none-wheelchair user who's already on board off, we should consider how it would look for an able bodied person to be able to force a wheelchair user off, and if it wouldn't, we should consider the objectives as described by Mr Fry to be unreasonable.

[Bmblbzzz]

Condolences, Grahame.

On the topic: I'm not sure what the solicitor meant. It could be interpreted that way, but it seems more likely he meant there's no right to force wheelchair users off the bus (because of a lack of space) but he's not yet satisfied because, equally, they don't have a right to a space.

[grahame]

On the topic: I'm not sure what the solicitor meant. It could be interpreted that way, but it seems more likely he meant there's no right to force wheelchair users off the bus (because of a lack of space) but he's not yet satisfied because, equally, they don't have a right to a space.

At best, dangerously worded comments from the solicitor then, but with "but not that far yet" on the end, I fear it's a stated desire for further power sought for the elbow - or the wheelchair - of the disabled user.

Other comment appreciates - I note CfN has started a thread in Frequent Posters.

[TonyK]

How times have changed, when I was a bus conductor in the early 70s, no-one would ever have tried to get on the bus with a child still sitting in a push chair, they always folded it up and stored it in the luggage space (usually under the stairs) ( the push chair, not the child!) I believe that if you take a push chair/buggy etc on a train you have to fold it up, so why not on a bus?

When I was a passenger in the early 1970s, the thought of anyone getting on a bus in a wheelchair had not been - well, thought.

[LiskeardRich]

How times have changed, when I was a bus conductor in the early 70s, no-one would ever have tried to get on the bus with a child still sitting in a push chair, they always folded it up and stored it in the luggage space (usually under the stairs) ( the push chair, not the child!) I believe that if you take a push chair/buggy etc on a train you have to fold it up, so why not on a bus?

When I was a passenger in the early 1970s, the thought of anyone getting on a bus in a wheelchair had not been - well, thought.

The first wheelchair accessible buses were launched around the mid 90s. Step entrance buses had a handle of some form in the middle of the step making a narrow entrance

[grahame]

From The Guardian

Wheelchair users in UK^▸ (United Kingdom) to be given enhanced rights for bus travel

Decision follows supreme court ruling that bus companies must do more for wheelchair users

Wheelchair users are to be given enhanced rights for bus travel, the government has announced, after a landmark supreme court judgment.

The transport minister, Nusrat Ghani, has promised to improve access to spaces on vehicles that are intended to be reserved for disabled passengers.

The decision follows the legal victory last year by the campaigner Doug Paulley in a ruling that said bus companies must do more to ensure wheelchair users are given priority spaces on buses.

[continues]

[ChrisB]

Unfolded Pram ban?......easiest answer.