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  • Melksham Station Group: October 25, 2013
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Author Topic: Informing the community - TransWilts CRP  (Read 23475 times)
trowcommuter
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2013, 02:37:54 »

I live in Trowbridge and I am likely to be using the extra rail services from December, although to be honest they will more likely be useful to me for leisure purposes than commuting, mainly due to cost factors.

I currently commute from Trowbridge to Swindon each day. To begin with I did this by car, but to be honest I hated it, far too much hassle. I looked around for a direct alternative, and settled on the 49 bus, which is the method I currently use.

Now I don't have any particular gripe with the bus service. The drivers are friendly, it generally shows up on time and it's a lot cheaper than taking the car. The problem is that it's just very, very slow.

I very nearly jumped for joy when I heard about the new services, particularly given that the peak times are ideal, and the journey time reduction would be fantastic. My problems were over.

Or at least, they were until I saw the price difference:

TROWBRIDGE TO SWINDON BUS FARES

Day Return ^5.70
Weekly ^20
Monthly ^76

TROWBRIDGE TO SWINDON RAIL FARES

Day Return ^17.60 (Peak) ^13.90 (Off-Peak)
Weekly ^69.10
Monthly ^265.40

Now, I am happy to pay a small premium for the vastly superior journey time advantage of rail, but I cant stretch to more than double the price on all options.

If I was to drive again (I wont but humour me) then according to the Connecting Wiltshire Travel Shift Calculator, my car costs for Trowbridge to Swindon would be:

Day ^11.54
Weekly ^57.70
Monthly ^250.03

Again, rail is uncompetitive. Is there a specific reason why commuters like us who should really be "low hanging fruit" for the new rail services should be priced off them like this, such as avoiding excessive out-commuting or overcrowding perhaps?

Things are far better on the leisure front, though. I've already booked Trowbridge to London day out for ^28.80 (via Swindon, 2 singles, ^8.17 saving over car) and Trowbridge to Oxford day out for ^21.20 (via Didcot and Swindon, 2 singles, ^5 saving over car).
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grahame
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 04:56:48 »

Welcome to the forum - and what an important post to start with, and a set of questions very well asked.

Some more background / inputs / thoughts.  I have numbered these for easy back reference.

1. The ticket prices from Trowbridge to Swindon are also valid via Bath Spa.  Until 7th December, with trains from Swindon at 06:12 and 18:44 (only), and from Trowbridge at 07:10 and 19:38 only, the majority of passengers using one of the direct services as part of their commute have 'doglegged' in the other direction.  You'll meet different passengers on the direct morning and afternoon trains, as 11.5 hours in Swindon, or 13 hours in Trowbridge, is simply too long for a working day and that was the only direct option given.  With the addition of  further six trains each way per day (4 x the number of trains), the number of day trip return options direct explodes.   Here's a diagram comparing Trowbridge to Swindon options - with the current one in red, and ones added from 9th December in black:


2. The journey time from Trowbridge to Swindon varies from 34 minutes on direct trains, to twice that (and more) by bus. There's a comparison [here]

3. Passenger numbers from Trowbridge to Swindon aren't enough to justify a long train, nor a none-stop one, so the cost of provision per seat-mile, including the staffing cost and how long the train takes to cover a mile as well, is going to be high.

4. There's no way that a train running without permanent taxpayer input is going to compete with the bus with 100% taxpayer funding for travelers who travel on concessionary passes.  I appreciate that the original post wasn't talking about this group - senior citizens - but it's a point to bear in mind - "reductio ad abusrdum" if you like.  I wouldn't expect the train to make any significant inroads into the number of pensioners using the 49 bus service due to the cost, and due to the completely different routes served to that it's only through Trowbridge - Swindon traffic that is being provided with the new train option.

4a. If you're accounting for your cost of travel, how do you value your time?  Is your time worth - say - 15p per minute to you?  If so, your real cost (for a day return, peak) will be 17.60 + .15 x 70 for the new train service, or 5.70 + 0.15 x 160 for the bus.  That's 28.10 (train) v 29.70 (bus)

5. I don't think that the 11.54 for the car journey includes the cost of parking in Swindon. With cost of time as in the previous paragraph, you're looking at 27.44 + Parking cost.  (I am meeting with Connecting Wiltshire folks on Friday - I can check whether their pricing include parking if I get a chance)

6. Bus and train fares when looked at in terms of pence per mile are a bit of a mess ... and you're seeing that on this particular journey comparison.  That does sometimes leave you with extra options you may not have looked at.   I believe that for most Trowbridge to Swindon rail passengers, the benefit of being able to travel via Bath Spa on occasions that there's no direct train will be useful, and so the dual route use will continue to be useful.  But you could travel at a lower cost by train if you were to purchase Trowbridge - Melksham and Melksham - Swindon return or season tickets.  That's not going to compete with the bus fares, but if your place sufficiently low a value on your time for a wait to be better than paying more for more options, it's worth considering.

7. I use the train a lot, and will be using it more.  I could drive, I could take the bus.  Driving, I end up tired and irritable at the end of the journey, and I've not been able to work / read / sleep on the way.  I could use the bus, but I'm not really able to work or read there.  Train time isn't wasted time to me; I complete the journey having not seen my 15p per minute spent at all - it's not time taken from other things - and the train ends up cheaper for me in real terms.

Bear in mind on the leisure fares that 4 can usually travel for the price of two.  Did your car figures there include London and Oxford parking costs?  I look forward to meeting you on the TransWilts trains; they're not going to be for everyone making Trowbridge to Swindon journeys, but they are going to be very attractive to many people.  The Community Rail Partnership is keeping an eye on ticket costs, special deals, etc, and we have had conversations with FGW (First Great Western) already on some matters.  Not necessarily in the direction of "please reduce prices" but rather more along the lines of "remove nasty expensive quirks, but make sure it's economically sensible to run the service too".

Edit to correct typos
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 07:23:29 by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 08:35:18 »

... particularly given that the peak times are ideal ...

I overlooked answering that in full in the complexity of the points I was addressing.  If you're happy without the dual route option - and it seems very much that the new times direct work for you - take a look at the limiting (but fine for you) alternative fare option in paragraph 6; that may make the train viable for you on a daily basis.
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2013, 08:52:04 »

Interesting angle from WikiPedia

Quote
Chippenham branch

There is a link from Trowbridge to Chippenham, with an intermediate stop at Melksham. Despite showing strong passenger growth in the previous few years, the new franchise reduced services in December 2006 to 2 each way per day, at times barely convenient for commuters. This has particularly hit Trowbridge to London commuters, who now generally have to drive to Chippenham or Westbury for a connection to London if they wish to arrive at the capital relatively early.

And that lines up with a note from a senior Trowbridge official who tells me that the number of journeys from Trowbridge to London in less that 2 hours doubles.

The reduction is now in - thank goodness - becoming historic.  The metrics of passenger growth as shown in the diagram at the base of this post, and the text with it in the LSTF (Local Sustainable Transport Fund) proposal - "Notably, the highest growth in road traffic on the A350 was recorded between Trowbridge, Melksham and Chippenham, a section that currently has no viable rail alternative."   Note also that the diagram only shows limited population growth, yet the 2001 to 2026 forecast (second enclosure) show a much higher figure, and we know it's coming / to come.   The clever this is to have a viable service in place now next month, and as housing continues to expand ensure that people are aware of the option of rail travel as they change jobs / move houses.
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2014, 16:58:50 »

I live in Trowbridge and I am likely to be using the extra rail services from December, although to be honest they will more likely be useful to me for leisure purposes than commuting, mainly due to cost factors.

I currently commute from Trowbridge to Swindon each day. To begin with I did this by car, but to be honest I hated it, far too much hassle. I looked around for a direct alternative, and settled on the 49 bus, which is the method I currently use.

Now I don't have any particular gripe with the bus service. The drivers are friendly, it generally shows up on time and it's a lot cheaper than taking the car. The problem is that it's just very, very slow.

I very nearly jumped for joy when I heard about the new services, particularly given that the peak times are ideal, and the journey time reduction would be fantastic. My problems were over.

Or at least, they were until I saw the price difference:

TROWBRIDGE TO SWINDON BUS FARES

Day Return ^5.70
Weekly ^20
Monthly ^76

TROWBRIDGE TO SWINDON RAIL FARES

Day Return ^17.60 (Peak) ^13.90 (Off-Peak)
Weekly ^69.10
Monthly ^265.40

Now, I am happy to pay a small premium for the vastly superior journey time advantage of rail, but I cant stretch to more than double the price on all options.

I'm coming back to update an old thread here.    New fares have been introduced, via Melksham, as follows:
Day Return ^9.90 (Peak) ^7.00 (Off-Peak)
Weekly ^39.00
Monthly - checking for you but probably about ^150

43% reduction in fare! Does that help convert you to rail  Grin ?



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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2014, 17:18:36 »

Can't seem to find the via Melksham fares grahame Undecided Lips sealed

According to brfares they do exist. But I cannot get any journey planner to show them. Or perhaps my searches are wrong?!
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2014, 17:25:25 »

Can't seem to find the via Melksham fares grahame Undecided Lips sealed

According to brfares they do exist. But I cannot get any journey planner to show them. Or perhaps my searches are wrong?!

Am investigating.   They were introduced early December and I was not aware that they were for a limited period.  More likely that the January revision was prepared before they were introduced in December and has overridden them.

Watch this space.
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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2014, 17:58:19 »

I'm seeing the ^7.00 off-peak day return right now on a basic Trowbridge - Swindon return out at  1838 and returning later tonight, using the standard National Rail planner with no extra options, but haven't successfully found them on an actual TOC (Train Operating Company)'s ticket selling website...

Paul
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 18:04:22 by paul7755 » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2014, 18:24:42 »

Watch this space.

See attachment.  Still researching what's happened / happening.
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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2014, 20:46:39 »

Being followed up further / I should get an email reply.   Hopefully just a glitch in system updates ...
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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2014, 22:02:19 »

Using National Rail journey planner, choosing via Melksham the off peak day return comes up ^7.00, click on 'buy now' I get directed to Virgin Trains, fare stays the same, (with the option of PlusBus Swindon ^3.00) and I can buy it right now, should I want to!
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« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2014, 17:23:45 »

Being followed up further / I should get an email reply.   Hopefully just a glitch in system updates ...

Confirmed as a glitch - but not an instantly fixed one.   Once fixed, these tickets should be available for sale again; I don't have a timeframe yet, nor can I confirm whether or not the 7 and 39 pound fares we've talked about will remain or be "+ January rise" - i.e. about 7.20 and about 40 pounds.

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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2014, 12:13:39 »

UPDATE

1. Anyone who has paid the erroneous higher fare will get a refund of the difference.

2. As of now, staff are instructed to manually override the system to charge the new lower fare while systems are being sorted out
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2014, 14:32:56 »

That looks like an absolute bargain! So for the avoidance of doubt, I can get a return ticket from Frome to Swindon via Melksham (according to brfares) for ^7.00 Cheap Day return? It's 40 miles each way by car, so cheaper by train than even the cost of the petrol (assuming one person travelling).

By contrast, a Cheap Day return from Frome to Bath is ^10.20 (15 miles each way by car).

So that's 9 pence per mile for a trip to Swindon, and 34 pence per mile to Bath on the same ticket type. If only Swindon were a more attractive place to visit  Wink
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2014, 17:55:31 »

Here is a video of 153305 head to Swindon from Westbury: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSp-nxaMOCQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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