Public timetable requirements to reflect an amended service

[whole diary]

[grahame]

What sort of timetable / notice board should be provided at TransWilts stations, and what destinations should be shown, when the service is [probably] amended from December?

The answer probably differs station by station - but for Chippenham and Swindon, the general departure boards showing key destinations, and the times of trains with arrivals there, simply need updating.   When I last took a look, Melksham and Westbury were shown as destinations at Chippenham, but NOT Trowbridge!    So - for both these stations I'll ask "please ensure that Melksham, Trowbridge and Westbury are included in the detination list".   There is also a strng case for adding Salisbury and Weymouth.   And in all cases, I think both through trains and single-change services which are not overtaken should be included.

At Melksham, the only timetable currently available is a line timetable for Portsmouth to Cardiff, which is very light on connections, and it won't even tell you about trains to Bath and Bristol via Chippenham.  Something very different is needed, and I'm going to suggest using the same general departure board format as at Chippehham, showing train departures for (and arrivals at) the most popular destinations.  And - for starters, I would suggest the following - to be sorted in alphabetic order as per usuaul for these posters:
a) Main service stations - SWI^» (Swindon - next trains), CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains), TRO^» (Trowbridge - next trains) and WSB^» (Westbury - next trains)
b) To the south - DMH^» (Dilton Marsh - next trains), WMN^» (Warminster - next trains), SAL, SOU, PMH, FRO^» (Frome - next trains), YPM, WEY
c) To the west - BTH^» (Bath Spa - next trains), BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains), FAW, WSM, TAU^» (Taunton - next trains)
d) To the east - RDG^‡(resolve), PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)
e) To the north - OXF^» (Oxford - next trains), CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains)
These should fit on one standard sheet and I've tried to include the more common journeys along with a handful for "marketing purposes" - to remind people that such journeys are possible if they're reading the poster.  CNM is there "for connections to the Midlands, North East, North West and Scotland".   A discussion [here this morning] also wondered about including Cardiff, Birmingham, Bournemouth ... all of which we though "perhaps not", but I do wonder.

As a double sided handout, this Melksham sheet would be very useful with the RETURN journeys shown on the reverse.   Has this ever been done?

For Trowbridge and Westbury,  I don't yet have any suggestion as I'm not 100% familiar with what is there at the moment, nor are the others in the group that was discussing this a few hours back. Users / readers from there - comments welcome.  However, I share with you the following - the new commuter time trains for commuters from Trowbridge to Swindon.

[Network SouthEast]

An observation from me is that timetables generally show destinations that require no more than one change of train.

I'd also include the most popular destinations - based on what is known from ticket sales data (when there was last a good service).

[grahame]

An observation from me is that timetables generally show destinations that require no more than one change of train.

On my "Melksham" list, I thought hard before adding stations that require two changes to get there, and the only one that always requires multiple changes is Oxford.  We know it's a significant flow - we identified it, the Go Coop folks identified it.  Other are sometimes two changes, but there are single-change trains for Weston and Taunton, and significant interest in those journeys.

I'd also include the most popular destinations - based on what is known from ticket sales data (when there was last a good service).

We have surprisingly good data on that, and the "most popular" are included.   Some of the quite popular ones are there too.    At Chippenham and Swindon, we should also check that Salisbury, Southampton and Portsmouth are on the posters.

[Network SouthEast]

We have surprisingly good data on that, and the "most popular" are included.   Some of the quite popular ones are there too.    At Chippenham and Swindon, we should also check that Salisbury, Southampton and Portsmouth are on the posters.

Portsmouth & Southsea is used by more passengers than Portsmouth Harbour, which is why I raised my earlier comment, as it's missing from your list (unless Melksham bucks the trend, with more people preferring PMH to PMS).

[paul7575]

What do they call those station poster displays that just have a list of destinations and arrival/departure times tabulated?  I never know what to call them to differentiate from the other type. 

I know the vast majority of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) stations have a fairly comprehensive listing, but some (for example those on the Fareham to Southampton line where only SWT normally call) just display a 'line of route timetable' instead.  On the other hand Swanwick gets a three page poster display, with many '1 change' destinations in both directions.

A bad example of information provision is what I saw at Romsey a while ago, where both SWT and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) provided 'line of route timetables', so to glean information about the whole service pattern you had to check two separate posters.   (Don't know if that is still the case though.)

Paul

[JayMac]

grahame, you asked what type of public timetables were at Trowbridgeand Westbury upthread.

I can confirm that Trowbridge has line timetable posters rather than an A to Z of destinations. There are line timetables for Cardiff-Portsmouth (FGW^▸ (First Great Western)), Bristol to Weymouth (FGW) and Bristol to London Waterloo (SWT^▸ (South West Trains)). Both platforms have the same. The ticket office has a small selection of line timetable booklets and foldouts also.

At Westbury there are also the line timetable posters, mentioned above, on the platforms. Additionally there's the London, Reading to West of England line timetable. I can't say for definite whether Westbury also has an A to Z of destinations or not, as I didn't case the entire station when passing through earlier!

[grahame]

I met up with the Station Manager based in Westbury yesterday, who is very helpful indeed, to go through a whole lot of matters - many are just confirming how we're going along and planning for potential changes which in terms of passenger number at stations will proportionately change most at Melksham.

The line-of-route timetables are usually provided [all that is provided] at smaller stations; destination sheets at bigger ones.  On many branch lines, that seems the natural approach to me as people want to go up to the junction and perhaps beyond to other major points.   At random, I called up the Exmouth line timetable and it shows the line itself and Paddington, Paignton, Plymouth and Barnstaple beyond. Seems sensible.

Specifically for Melksham, the line-of-route sheet - Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff - has a natural bias toward the trains on the main route and doesn't clearly show some of the most common journeys such as Melksham to Bristol Temple Meads; you CAN work out the "Change at Trowbridge" options by reading two different panels, but "Change at Chippenham" options are impossible to learn about at the station without pressing the "information" button and asking!     Perhaps the reason that line-of-route fails at Melksham is that it's not a traditional branch line station offering services to a single junction - passengers will be travelling not only to the four major places that every departing train serves, but also connecting in significant numbers from each and every one of those places to other destinations.

[JayMac]

At the very least, come December, I think there is a need for a new line of route timetable for Swindon<Melksham>Westbury.

One that shows connections east and west at both ends.

[grahame]

At the very least, come December, I think there is a need for a new line of route timetable for Swindon<Melksham>Westbury.

One that shows connections east and west at both ends.

Yes, there doesv- although there will be a very high proportion of people making journeys that involve changes.  4 out of 5 stations are interchanges, and both termini are major junctions.   So the connections may be long-winded to show.

I've had a play - for our business visitors - with what a Monday to Friday major destination sheet might look like - at http://www.wellho.net/mouth/4174_.html?pwidth=wide and I've added "trains coming back" as the bottom.   This sort of thing will probably form the basis of what we sent to hotel guests and course delegates, and I hope we'll be up from 5% to 50% arriving in the town by train in 2014.

Edit to add ...  I will not be using the major destination sheet as drawn up - having sought local opinion it's described as "unreadable" and I need to look for alternative ways to present the information.  I comfort myself with the knowledge that this was a piece of research into possible formats, and an outcome of "it is not readable" is a valuable outcome and lesson.  Perhaps we're back to bignosemac's line of route?

[John R]

Are you better off listing each departure as the top row and underneath arrival times at the various major destinations.  Something like:-
                     N        S
Melksham    0700   0800
Bath            0730   0825
Bristol         0745   0840
Weymouth     -       1030

N is northbound via Chippenham to Swindon
S is southbound via Trowbridge to Westbury

(all times made up). With as many destinations as you want between Bristol and Weymouth.   That would be more concise, and give the key information. Suggest you would want to do something to make it easier to read across if there are too many destinations - alternating two tone colour background as an example.   

[grahame]

I've had a first play with that ... coloured columns need adding, I think - you're right on that. Plus perhaps split into two sets of destinations, and they should probably be sorted.   Early days on this one.

http://www.wellho.net/mouth/4175_.html?pwidth=wide

P.S.  Also N/S indicator missing ...

[John R]

On the inbound I would probably put the Melksham arrival time on the top.

There are rather a lot of destinations. Depending on the purpose I wonder whether it would be better to focus on a smaller number?  Or have two blocks, one for local destinations, and one for further afield.  I'm sure in a printed format it would be much more readable than as currently shown.

As an aside, I bumped into a colleague walking to Swindon station last week, who when asked told me he commuted from Trowbridge, and came via Melksham but dog-legged back. He was absolutely thrilled when I told him that from December he probably wouldn't have to leave so early and would have a direct train back.

[Surrey 455]

I've had a first play with that ... coloured columns need adding, I think - you're right on that. Plus perhaps split into two sets of destinations, and they should probably be sorted.   Early days on this one.

http://www.wellho.net/mouth/4175_.html?pwidth=wide

P.S.  Also N/S indicator missing ...

I've had a look at it, but it's not clear to me exactly where I would need to change trains and at what times the first train arrives and the second departs.

[Network SouthEast]

I've had a look at it, but it's not clear to me exactly where I would need to change trains and at what times the first train arrives and the second departs.

Agree.

What would be useful too is to highlight direct services with the times in bold, a bit like the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) timetables.

[Surrey 455]

One thought re my comment above is to perhaps have a hyper link or pop up against each time displayed so in the example I've circled the arrival time at Heathrow. By hovering the mouse or clicking on this would bring up:

Departs melksham  06:38
Arrives   station a    07:00

Depart   station a    07:30
Arrive     station b   08:20

Depart    station b   08:45
Arrive     heathrow   09:10

I know nothing about programming, design or presentation though. you've probably already guessed that.