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Author Topic: September timetable changes  (Read 14630 times)
mikestone
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« on: September 08, 2013, 14:39:23 »

A poster at Oxford lists service changes from 2nd September - the 06.40 Bristol-Paddington is withdrawn.
Does this mean en extra HST (High Speed Train) working on a morning Thames Valley service?
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grahame
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 15:02:25 »

Hi, Mike ... long time no post  Wink

I think the answer may lie in this poster I saw at Chippenham station on Friday evening when connecting into the bus



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Timmer
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 21:22:49 »

It won't be returning next year either if the times appearing on Open Train Times for that time of the morning are to be believed.

Interesting wording on that poster as I would say it was the other way round: The HST (High Speed Train) normally used to operate the 0640 ex Bristol is used during the peak summer months to provide additional capacity for services to/from Cornwall as the 0640 ran for more months of the year than the additional weekday service to/from Newquay.

I know I'm being a bit pedantic here...just having a mild pop on the spin used by the FGW (First Great Western) PR (Public Relations) department on this poster that delivers the bad news that one of your trains isn't coming back.

Was it a well used train?
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grahame
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 01:27:08 »

I think that the summer Newquay train is a part of the contract between the government and First (SLC2) but the extra from Bristol is not - so that you could consider that the 06:40 was use of a spare train, even though it was made more use of in its spare time that for its primary purpose.   

In the past (hearsay - no figures, I'm afraid) it's always been one of the first services to be cancelled in the event of stock shortages - the eastbound morning peak equivalent of the 07:15 Paddington to Cardiff. 

No direct loading data from me, I'm afraid - I've always found myself using earlier services to be sure to be where I'm working on time, or already being on the 07:31 from Chippenham and changing at Swindon onto the "Capitals United" where I'm closer to Paddington and can risk what's usually close timing.  These days, for the occasional traveller it can even be slightly cheaper to travel up to London on a Sunday evening and stay at a cheap hotel in the Paddington area than to lash out and buy a peak ticket from Swindon ... and that illustrates that the superoffpeak / peak pricing differential really works in terms of influencing customer behaviour.
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JayMac
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 04:10:32 »

I think that the summer Newquay train is a part of the contract between the government and First (SLC2) but the extra from Bristol is not - so that you could consider that the 06:40 was use of a spare train, even though it was made more use of in its spare time that for its primary purpose.   

The 0640 from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington is part of the latest Service Level Commitment (2b) as amended in May 2013. However it does not have to call at Bath Spa or Chippenham. One can only assume that derogation has been obtained from the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) to remove this service from the timetable from 2nd September.

From the Greater Western Franchise Service Level Commitment 2b (May 2013):

Quote
A3 LONDON PADDINGTON ^ BRISTOL TEMPLE MEADS ^ WESTON-SUPER-MARE

1 Route Definition

  • 1.1 Services shall be provided between London Paddington and Bristol Temple
    Meads calling at Swindon, Chippenham and Bath Spa.
  • 1.2 Limited Stops shall be made at Bristol Parkway, Nailsea & Backwell,
    Yatton, Weston Milton, Weston-super-Mare, Highbridge & Burnham-on-Sea,
    Bridgwater, Taunton, Tiverton Parkway, Exeter St David^s, Torre,
    Paignton and Plymouth. The calls at stations between Nailsea & Backwell
    and Paignton/Penzance shall be provided by extending services specified
    in paragraph 2 below. The full specification for stops between Exeter St
    David^s and Plymouth can be found in Route H1, between Plymouth and
    Penzance in Route H2 and between Exeter St David^s and Paignton in
    Route H4.
  • 1.3 Services to and from London Paddington shall be joined with services
    specified in Route A1 with one train fulfilling both service requirements.
  • 1.4 Other services between Bristol Temple Meads and Weston-super-Mare are
    specified in Route G1.
  • 1.5 One further additional call to be made at Slough to provide a Non-Stop
    morning peak service from Slough to London Paddington. This may be
    provided by a service on another route.

2 Frequency
2.1 Mondays to Fridays

  • (a) Between and including the Early Service and 2014, 28 services shall be
    provided from London Paddington at half-hourly intervals.
  • (b) Between 2015 and the Late Service, four services including the Late
    Service shall be provided from London Paddington.
  • (c) One additional service shall be provided from Bristol Temple Meads
    via Bristol Parkway to London Paddington to arrive no later than 0645.
  • (d) Between and including the Early Service and 1844, 27 services shall be
    provided from Bristol Temple Meads at half-hourly intervals.
  • (e) Between 1845 and the Late Service, four services including the Late
    Service shall be provided from Bristol Temple Meads at hourly
    intervals. One interval of 1 hour 20 minutes may be permitted after
    2030.
  • (f) An additional service, which need not call at Bath and Chippenham,
    shall be provided from Bristol Temple Meads between 0630 and 0730.
    This service need not run in summer when the service shown in Flow B
    Paragraph 2.1c is provided.

Have these maintenance issues crept up on FGW (First Great Western)? Are they outside of the scope of planned maintenance, where  the dates of various exams are fixed by either time periods or mileage. Seems strange that printed timetables for May 2013 include the 0640, as did the latest SLC (Service Level Commitment). Was the requirement for this heavy maintenance programme not known at the beginning of the year when the timetables were being printed? Or when the SLC was being amended?

The poster does rather give the impression, with the wording, "it has been our practice..." that FGW have been running the 0640 outwith the terms of the SLC. When in fact, they've had to run it 10 months of the year as part of the franchise agreement. I agree with Timmer that the poster is a little bit of spin.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 04:27:12 by bignosemac » Logged

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BandHcommuter
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 06:16:24 »

Quote from: Timmer

Was it a well used train?
I used this train quite a lot as a positioning move to get the car to Bath when I knew I was going to be late in London. It was definitely the least busy peak train from Bath  to London, helped by the fact that it didn't call at Didcot or Reading. We would often get held at a signal in the station at Reading, leaving the commuters on the platform looking enviously at our half-full train (which they couldn't board).

That said, there will still be several hundred passengers to redistribute between the earlier and later trains, both of which are usually full on departure from Didcot and very cosy leaving Reading. FGW (First Great Western) can get away with this in July and August when passenger numbers are fewer, but I can see additional crowding resulting now that everyone is back at work. Of course it will be the Didcot and Reading commuters who suffer most, even though the cancelled train does not call at these stations. I wonder if a poster has gone up at these stations to warn of the additional overcrowding on the 630 and 700 from Bristol?
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bobm
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 06:25:12 »

Reading certainly did see to be the problem for this train.

The Raildar site, while not official, shows it was cancelled three times between Jaunary and early July. On other days it was almost a 50/50 chance if it would be on time.  The graph below shows most of the delays were incurred in the Reading area.

http://raildar.co.uk/timetable/train?trainid=P00007
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mjones
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 10:36:02 »

The 0729 from Didcot was rammed this morning, already a few minutes late and further delayed by the difficulty getting everyone on. And there was no way all those waiting at P11 at Reading were going to get on!
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ChrisB
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 10:39:37 »

This maintenance requirement was known to be needed by FGW (First Great Western), but needed sign-in by DfT» (Department for Transport - about) for the derogation (as noted above). DfT dragged their feet and it got urgent as these need to all be through before the IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) arrive/electrification is complete.

You won't be seeing the 0640/1551 to the cotwolds at an HST (High Speed Train) (same diagram!) in the next three years....
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mikestone
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 12:41:34 »

An alternative would perhaps have been to hire one of the grossly underused XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) sets. 
;
EMT» (East Midlands Trains - about) could provide one too, although the Paxman engines might be a problem (as well as raising the question as to exactly why fGW sets have to have those dreadful seats).
;
 
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BandHcommuter
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 13:29:38 »

I am very surprised (although perhaps I shouldn't be) that DfT» (Department for Transport - about) has allowed FGW (First Great Western) to take out such a big chunk of peak capacity - I wonder to what extent the potential alternatives (such as those suggested by mikestone) have been seriously explored. It seems only yesterday that we were celebrating (in a blaze of publicity) the extra peak seats delivered by the return of the Adelantes and the conversion of the buffet cars. Now we lose 500+ seats in one go.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 14:28:56 »

Its the most underused HST (High Speed Train) diagram - just the 0640 in the morning & the 1551 (& its return) in the evening.

Been well explored....
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BandHcommuter
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 15:26:34 »

Its the most underused HST (High Speed Train) diagram - just the 0640 in the morning & the 1551 (& its return) in the evening.

Been well explored....

When I referred to "alternatives" I wasn't referring to the withdrawal of other FGW (First Great Western) services - the relative efficiency of rolling stock utilisation outside the peak is an operational matter for FGW and there will always be a "least worst" train to withdraw. Apologies for being unclear.

I was trying to express an expectation that innovative ideas would have been jointly worked up between DfT» (Department for Transport - about),  FGW, and perhaps other operators, to avoid the significant reduction in peak hour capacity into London Paddington which has been imposed. If there is genuinely no alternative such as those suggested by a previous contributor (perhaps for operational or commercial reasons) , then FGW should be honest with customers and state this, rather than issuing disingenuous publicity which suggests that they were previously running part of their contracted service level on a discretionary basis.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 15:33:42 »

By blaming the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) for taking their eye off the ball? - they knew the situation. FGW (First Great Western) have been pressing them.

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Timmer
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 16:20:55 »

FGW (First Great Western) should be honest with customers and state this, rather than issuing disingenuous publicity which suggests that they were previously running part of their contracted service level on a discretionary basis.
That's what upset me somewhat about the wording on that poster making it sound like the service was only run as an extra service using a set that's part of the fleet just for WofE services when in fact the 0640 or at a time similar has been running between Bristol and London for years long before the extention of a weekday Plymouth service to Newquay was introduced that this set is required for during the summer months.

As you say BandHcommuter it will be Didcot and Reading passengers who will feel the loss of this service more when Bristol-Swindon passengers make a choice between travelling on the 0630 or 0700 ex Bristol filling up these trains. Wonder how long it will be before FGW are forced by major overcrowding on these services to reinstate the 0640? I know ChrisB will come back with the answer: Never  Wink
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