Have I been overcharged?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Melksham to Patchway, out this morning, back tomorrow evening.

There's a 14.00 DAY return which doesn't allow out one day and back the next. I was advised that the cheapest / only way was 2 x 11.60 singles = 23.20 and (without challenging this) paid my first 11.60.

Couldn't I have bought a 19.80 Single Open Return from Melksham to Newport, or even a 17.10 SOR from Melksham to Severn Tunnel Junction?

[JayMac]

There is indeed no period return for Melksham to Patchway.

And yes, you could have asked for a Melksham to Severn Tunnel Junction Anytime Return (SOR) and travelled short to/from Patchway.

I wouldn't say you were overcharged in any deliberate way. Just one of those multitude examples where a period return is not available, but there is one to a further station at less than the cost of two singles to your required destination.

[grahame]

And yes, you could have asked for a Melksham to Severn Tunnel Junction Anytime Return (SOR) and travelled short to/from Patchway.

I wouldn't say you were overcharged in any deliberate way.

Oh - I'm sure it wasn't deliberate.  But I did state that I was travelling to Patchway, returning tomorrow, and wanted to make the journey at as low a cost as was possible ... so I was not sold the most suitable ticket for my needs.  I blame the system!

It was a quick conversation on that topic - I was more concerned to find out if the 06:38 off Melksham, which didn't leave until 06:54, would make the connection at Trowbridge into the 07:02 ...

[bobm]

It was a quick conversation on that topic - I was more concerned to find out if the 06:38 off Melksham, which didn't leave until 06:54, would make the connection at Trowbridge into the 07:02 ...

It didn't - by 8 minutes.

[grahame]

It was a quick conversation on that topic - I was more concerned to find out if the 06:38 off Melksham, which didn't leave until 06:54, would make the connection at Trowbridge into the 07:02 ...

It didn't - by 8 minutes.

Don't believe everything you read - it did by about 30 seconds.   A group of us scrambled over the bridge and caught it.

Edit to remove duplication

[bobm]

Of course you are right - my apologies.  I was looking at the wrong train!  The times on realtimetrains show it was as tight as 30 seconds - 7.03 and a quarter and 7.03 and three quarters.

Off to Specsavers....

[grahame]

I'll add this onto the end of the same thread although (perhaps) it's another incident.

I got a lift back to Filton Abbey Wood at the end of the course, and bought a "single to Melksham" at the manned ticket hut.    It looks like this:



Ten pounds sounded about right, and after a very quick glance it was a Filton Abbey Wood to Melksham journey, and I dashed onto a late running train towards Temple Meads, having noted that the next one was cancelled. 

On the first train, the conductor pointed out that the ticket was rather an odd one and shouldn't have need been possible, and carried on.  On the second train, BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to CPM^» (Chippenham - next trains), the train manager told me (and those around me) very clearly that what I presented was not a ticket for the journey I was making, and as I had nothing else to offer I was travelling ticketless.  He did check on what the fare should have been (10.40) and let me off on this occasion.  To be fair to him, he made it clear he didn't think that my breaking of the rules was my fault, and I got sympathetic smiles from those around, and he briefed me to tell the conductor on my third train that my ticket had been OK'd by the train manager on the previous train who said it was OK to use this 'ticket' today. 

I'm not a great lover of having to talk my way through on what I had been informed was an unticketed journey only allowed by discression, and I took the bus from Chippenham back to Melksham rather that carrying on using my "ticket" which wasn't.  And that cost me an extra 4 pounds (for 5 miles!).

I'm - err - not actually sure what I did wrong to end up in this situation ...

[John R]

I don't think you did anything wrong Grahame, nor did you "break the rules". You asked a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) member of staff at a manned station for a single to your destination and was given an incorrect "ticket".  I certainly wouldn't have caught the bus back at additional cost.

I would complain to FGW as to why you were put in this embarrassing position. It's not dissimilar to the position I found myself in a few weeks ago with XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), with the exception that you were handed something which wasn't a ticket at all in exchange for your fare. It might be argued that you should have been diligent enough to check that what you were given was correct, but I think that would be a very weak position.

Methinks whoever was on duty at Filton Abbey Wood at 17.11 on Friday has a need for further training.

[JayMac]

I'm not sure that it's much of a training issue beyond the clerk looking at what is being sold. That ticket is, to my eyes, obviously erroneous, and should not have been sold.

It is a supplementary fare that should only be sold at weekends on presentation of a valid Standard Class ticket - the only Friday in the year it would valid is Good Friday.

Do complain to FGW^▸ (First Great Western). There may be a system error with, I assume, Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) (no full TIS^‡(resolve) at Filton Abbey Wood as far as I'm aware) where these tickets are being issued when that particular origin and destination is inputted and a Single is requested. Personally, I think it should be impossible to issue Weekend First for a non-weekend/bank holiday date, but then I don't know how intelligent either the software or its programmers are!

The correct fare is the ^10.40 Standard Anytime Single.

[bobm]

I was thinking it should be possible to programme the software to recognise a weekday versus a weekend.  However I suppose bank holidays present more of a problem (especially Easter which moves) - and you would also need a Scottish version for the variations they have north of the border.

Software apart the final check should be the human eye and, as bignosemac says, that clearly failed.

[grahame]

I don't think you did anything wrong Grahame, nor did you "break the rules". You asked a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) member of staff at a manned station for a single to your destination and was given an incorrect "ticket". 

Hmmm ... I've checked back - from National Conditions of Carriage:

D. YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES
21. Buying tickets
As soon as you can, you should check that the details shown on the ticket are consistent with the journey you intend to make and that you have received the correct change. If you think a mistake has been made you should tell the person who sold you the ticket as soon as possible.

I didn't check it thoroughly, and having failed to follow the NCoC I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if seriously challenged.   Just because a member of staff made what I believe to be a mistake doesn't mean I can then flout them.

There's an element of "technicality" in my response there - the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) could have got some rather unfortunate press had they issued a penalty fare or taken it even further when they had all bar 40p of what the fare should have been ... but there are TOCs who have been know to prosecute over 50p - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8995.0 . And, sorry, John - I wasn't going to take the risk after very clearly, but politely, having the implications of the error made clear on the second train.

[ChrisB]

My auggestion is to write on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) customer services, pointing out the situation you were put in, your conversation with the second TM^‡(resolve), and your resultant decision. Enclose your bus ticket and ask for an apology.

I suspect you may very well get your ^10 refunded in vouchers

[John R]

Grahame. I think it's a question of reasonableness. Your ticket states it's from Filton Abbey Wood to Melksham. Tick.  It's valid on the day you are travelling. Tick. It says its a single (twice). Tick.  Valid for an adult. Tick.  So I would suggest that it was consistent with the journey you intended to make, albeit that some other details were slightly unusual. But if you are not a regular traveller, or well versed in railway ticketing, you might believe that there is a weekend ticket offer which starts at 5pm on Friday which has been sold to you as the cheapest ticket for your journey.

And given FGW^▸ (First Great Western) clearly sold you a ticket that you couldn't possibly have asked for, I think in terms of responsibility for the error, it is 99% FGW, 1% Grahame. And a court would find accordingly. But I do understand your discomfort at the position you found yourself in. 


 

[sprinterguard]

This clearly is not a 'proper' ticket, and I cannot see why anyone would issue it intentionally or knowingly.

My guess is that the wrong ticket was selected from the list of those given (the screen is small and fiddly) and this is what came out! It happens unfortunately, and confident that customer relations should be able to resolve.

[readytostart]

It's a shame that the first member of on-train staff that you encountered didn't correct the mistake by issuing you a change of ticket type excess and instead left you to explain yourself for the rest of the journey. My avantix is not set up to automatically show fares only valid on train operators so I can't say where the weekend upgrade fare would be on the screen but the ticket you should have been issued is routed via Bath Spa, so would be towards the bottom of the screen (alphabetically arranged under V for via rather than B for Bath!).