Layman questions on senior railcards

[whole diary]

[grahame]

As I approach the point where I am considered worn out and in need of special care by the system (can go on Saga holidays and use Club 55 as and when it runs), I've been looking forward to that next millstone milestone - the senior railcard.

Couple of layman's questions as I've never been 60 before.

a) Terms and Conditions No. 4 state "Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard." Does that mean that I cannot take advantage of the railcard discount if I join a train at an unmanned / no TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) station with the full intent of buying my ticket from the conductor?

b) "Time restrictions apply for journeys in the Network Railcard area. Please refer to time restrictions, enquire at a station ticket office before your travel or phone National Rail enquiries on 08457 48 49 50." From this and other sources, I can use any train / ticket which is not wholely within the old NSE^▸ (Network South East) area, but not MORNING peak trains / tickets for journeys wholy within.   So peak Swindon -> London, yes.  Peak Didcot -> London, no.  Have I read that right?

c) Can I get use my railcard to get a reduction on season tickets? 

d) Some references are to "60 years old" as the starting point, which I take as meaning completed 60 years.   Others refer to your 60th Birthday.  My first birthday was the day I was born, so my 60th Birthday is the day I become 59 years old.  Which is right (I think I know the answer).   The 60th Birthday references are seem particularly to be about buying the railcard.  Does that mean that people born on 29th February will never practically be able to get a senior card according to the rules? 

Last question a bit in jest ... earlier ones of serious intertest

[brompton rail]

As I approach the point where I am considered worn out and in need of special care by the system (can go on Saga holidays and use Club 55 as and when it runs), I've been looking forward to that next millstone milestone - the senior railcard.

Couple of layman's questions as I've never been 60 before.

a) Terms and Conditions No. 4 state "Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard." Does that mean that I cannot take advantage of the railcard discount if I join a train at an unmanned / no TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) station with the full intent of buying my ticket from the conductor?

b) "Time restrictions apply for journeys in the Network Railcard area. Please refer to time restrictions, enquire at a station ticket office before your travel or phone National Rail enquiries on 08457 48 49 50." From this and other sources, I can use any train / ticket which is not wholely within the old NSE^▸ (Network South East) area, but not MORNING peak trains / tickets for journeys wholy within.   So peak Swindon -> London, yes.  Peak Didcot -> London, no.  Have I read that right?.

c) Can I get use my railcard to get a reduction on season tickets? 

d) Some references are to "60 years old" as the starting point, which I take as meaning completed 60 years.   Others refer to your 60th Birthday.  My first birthday was the day I was born, so my 60th Birthday is the day I become 59 years old.  Which is right (I think I know the answer).   The 60th Birthday references are seem particularly to be about buying the railcard.  Does that mean that people born on 29th February will never practically be able to get a senior card according to the rules? 


Last question a bit in jest ... earlier ones of serious intertest

a).  No, because you cannot purchase the ticket you need from the machine.

b). Don't know

c). No, specifically excluded from Railcard - the leaflet will list the ticket types.

b). What we actually celebrate is the "anniversary" of our birth day. We all only have one birthday (though those who are 'born again' may argue otherwise!) and therefore you will be celebrating (or bemoaning) the passage of 60 years since your first cry.

The Senior Railcard is, none the less, a very useful product and one that has encouraged me to travel by train.

[sprinterguard]

a) Terms and Conditions No. 4 state "Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard." Does that mean that I cannot take advantage of the railcard discount if I join a train at an unmanned / no TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) station with the full intent of buying my ticket from the conductor?

You can buy the full range of tickets with railcard discount if you board at a station without the facilities.

b) "Time restrictions apply for journeys in the Network Railcard area. Please refer to time restrictions, enquire at a station ticket office before your travel or phone National Rail enquiries on 08457 48 49 50." From this and other sources, I can use any train / ticket which is not wholely within the old NSE^▸ (Network South East) area, but not MORNING peak trains / tickets for journeys wholy within.   So peak Swindon -> London, yes.  Peak Didcot -> London, no.  Have I read that right?

That's right. You could do SWI^» (Swindon - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) with full discount, but if you wanted to do SWI-DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) and then DID-PAD you would not get discount on the DID-PAD leg.

c) Can I get use my railcard to get a reduction on season tickets?

Negative. Season tickets are already discounted products and no further discount is offered. However you do get discounts, as I'm sure you're aware, on rangers/rovers etc.

d) Some references are to "60 years old" as the starting point, which I take as meaning completed 60 years.   Others refer to your 60th Birthday.  My first birthday was the day I was born, so my 60th Birthday is the day I become 59 years old.  Which is right (I think I know the answer).   The 60th Birthday references are seem particularly to be about buying the railcard.  Does that mean that people born on 29th February will never practically be able to get a senior card according to the rules?

With respect, I think you're over analysing this a bit!  You can get a railcard when you turn 60 as per your supplied ID. There is nothing more to it than that!

[CLPGMS]

a) Senior Railcard discount can be obtained on tickets purchased on trains, but in some areas where penalty fares apply, they should be purchased before boarding where facilities exist.

b) This is not strictly correct.  The old NSE^▸ (Network South East) area is not the same as the Network Railcard area.  The Oxford-Worcester line was added to the Network Railcard area by Thames Trains after the NSE ceased to exist.  The time limit applies to journeys wholly within the Network Railcard area.

c) Railcard discounts are not available on Season Tickets.

[TonyK]

d) Applies only in China, where the newborn Child is given credit for the period of gestation, rounded up to the nearest year. Here, in the West (world, that is, not England), one's first birthday is regarded of the anniversary of one's triumphant entry into humanity. Or life, at least.

[Pb_devon]

I don't know if this will apply to you Grahame, but if you are doing rail travel at your employers expense, it might be worth asking if they will fund the railcard, as they will almost instantly recover the outlay.  This happened in my case with a major employer.
BTW^▸ (by the way) is is purchaseable on your 60th birthday (and advance happy returns to you, as well!!)

pb

[LiskeardRich]

I don't know if this will apply to you Grahame, but if you are doing rail travel at your employers expense,

Isn't Grahame the employer of himself?

[Worcester_Passenger]

OK, I'll own up to being a Senior Railcard user.

b) This is not strictly correct.  The old NSE^▸ (Network South East) area is not the same as the Network Railcard area.  The Oxford-Worcester line was added to the Network Railcard area by Thames Trains after the NSE ceased to exist.  The time limit applies to journeys wholly within the Network Railcard area.

Within this area, the time limit is driven by the availability (or otherwise) of Cheap Day Returns. For most of the Network Railcard part of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)-land, this means "By any train scheduled to arrive London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at or after 1000".

But Oxford-Worcester is so far west of FGW's equivalent of the international dateline that there's an easement on this so that we can use our railcards on the 06:42 HFD^» (Hereford - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) (07:28 from Foregate Street). There's probably something similar on the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service to Exeter.

[stuving]

Within this area, the time limit is driven by the availability (or otherwise) of Cheap Day Returns. For most of the Network Railcard part of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)-land, this means "By any train scheduled to arrive London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at or after 1000".

But Oxford-Worcester is so far west of FGW's equivalent of the international dateline that there's an easement on this so that we can use our railcards on the 06:42 HFD^» (Hereford - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) (07:28 from Foregate Street). There's probably something similar on the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service to Exeter.

Searching what is I think the full list of restriction codes for "senior", there are only two occurrences and they (4N and 4P) are both for the Cotswold line. There's a note that says

* Senior and Family & Friends Railcards: As an exception to the normal rule of validity, which states that discounts are only available when the corresponding Off-Peak Day Return is available, Senior and Family & Friends Railcard discounts are also available (on Anytime tickets) from these stations at these times.

I had always suspected there must be some routes with no off-peak fares, because there is no peak at all. Is that not true? (I can't think of a simple way to find an answer using Google.)

[readytostart]

I don't know if this will apply to you Grahame, but if you are doing rail travel at your employers expense,

Isn't Grahame the employer of himself?

Would make it tax deductible then I suppose?! 

[stuving]

d) Some references are to "60 years old" as the starting point, which I take as meaning completed 60 years.   Others refer to your 60th Birthday.  My first birthday was the day I was born, so my 60th Birthday is the day I become 59 years old.  Which is right (I think I know the answer).   The 60th Birthday references are seem particularly to be about buying the railcard.  Does that mean that people born on 29th February will never practically be able to get a senior card according to the rules? 

Last question a bit in jest ... earlier ones of serious intertest

Noting the intrabuccal tongue position, I would say that your 60th birthday is 60 years to the day after the day of your birth, or you could say after your birth day. Most people seem to agree on that meaning.

What does confuse people (well, journalists at least) is your age in ordinal terms. You will hear "in his 60th year" used to mean "60 years old" in the sense of in the year starting on his 60th birthday. Of course that's his 61st year, in the same way that your first year runs from your birth to your first birthday.

You may have come across the implication of this - that ordinals are useless for arithmetic - in a programming context.

[grahame]

Many thanks for all those feedbacks .... I won't come back with a "quotefest"

In summary

* Once I have a card, I CAN get on the train in Melksham and apply the discount to my journey provided it's one of the valid ticket type - which are going to be almost everything from there (including day returns to Swindon) but not season tickets.

* The point about saving on business and leisure travel  - being able to claim the cost from my employer, and it being tax deducible for him is interesting.   Yes, I am in effect my own employer, but it does make a significant difference whether I pay personally or the business pays for things due to tax implications.  The rail trips I make are on split between business and leisure, and so I probably couldn't 'claim' the card or claim it in full, and I would spend so long sorting out the proportions and getting our accountants to agree it that it's probably cheaper not to claim.  Business fares - yes, that would make a difference though as we charge expenses on to customers, it's our customers who would reap the benefit.

* I can use the card from my 61st Birthday - i.e. when I have completed 60 full years.   There was an element of "asked in jest" on that question as you all know.     I'm actually quite a way off that date (so wishes are very premature, but thank you!) as I do have a near-year to go.  If the detail had allowed my 60th Birthday, there could have been quite a few road trips in the next 11 months which would have become cheaper by rail.

[trainer]

One point that hasn't been mentioned is that you can't use a 3 year card (the best value) on your 60th Birthday, as I discovered.  It can only be purchased on-line and the system will not allow a purchase before that date, so a celebratory rail excursion is impossible on the BIG DAY.  I ordered mine at 08:45 on my birthday and it was with me in the next day's post.  I was impressed.  Best value present to myself, ever.

[TonyK]

One point that hasn't been mentioned is that you can't use a 3 year card (the best value) on your 60th Birthday, as I discovered.  It can only be purchased on-line and the system will not allow a purchase before that date, so a celebratory rail excursion is impossible on the BIG DAY.  I ordered mine at 08:45 on my birthday and it was with me in the next day's post.  I was impressed.  Best value present to myself, ever.

I shall follow this thread with increasing interest, for the next 2^ years.

[Alan Pettitt]

Can a one year senior card be purchased in advance? I shall be 60 on sunday (15th) and I did so want a celebration galavant, and Frome ticket office always closed on sundays!