Oh First Great Western, what shall we do?

[whole diary]

[Shazz]

What is this Rubbish about Network Rail won't let First Great Western run Loco Hauled Coaching Stock?

What's that train that runs at 23.45 from Paddington, 22.00 from Penzance then, CORNISH MIST?

A service thats been operating for years before network rail had a say in the railways, so they can't touch this...

They can obviously deny as many new services with loc's as they see fit.

[vacman]

Actually there's nothing stopping FGW^▸ (First Great Western) running any loco hauled stock, and there's no "grandfather rights" in that respect, it would just mean that FGW pay more track access charges.

[Conner]

Actually there's nothing stopping FGW^▸ (First Great Western) running any loco hauled stock, and there's no "grandfather rights" in that respect, it would just mean that FGW pay more track access charges.

But they do the stop it on the odd ocasion as one offs such as betwen Weston and Cardiff at the start of the new timetable.
BTW^▸ (by the way) Did you do any of the Loco Hauled in Cornwall a while back.

[vacman]

Actually there's nothing stopping FGW^▸ (First Great Western) running any loco hauled stock, and there's no "grandfather rights" in that respect, it would just mean that FGW pay more track access charges.

But they do the stop it on the odd ocasion as one offs such as betwen Weston and Cardiff at the start of the new timetable.
BTW^▸ (by the way) Did you do any of the Loco Hauled in Cornwall a while back.

I did go on them once or twice, dont believe all you hear about NR^» (Network Rail - home page) banning the locos on the Bristol-Weston...

[Conner]

The loco-hauled in Cornwall seemed to be a hassle to operate for FGW^▸ (First Great Western). Would you agree?

[vacman]

The loco-hauled in Cornwall seemed to be a hassle to operate for FGW^▸ (First Great Western). Would you agree?

Not really, it was very expensive though, but Network Rail paid for them in Cornwall.

[smokey]

Talking on about Loco Hauled Stock, which Includes HST^▸ (High Speed Train), all the new stock these days are Muitple Units be they Vomet Comet, class 175 180 185, long distance trains should NEVER have gone over to UNITS.

Loco Haulage has many advantages, and some disadvantages.

Network Rail Charge more for a train with heavy Axle Loadings such as the Old Locomotives that used to Pull Express trains around, the class 46 used to weigh 139tons.

But HST power cars are arond 70 tons and more modern Power units to haul HST MKII would proberley be in the 60-65 ton range due to advances in construction and Power design
However using the HST formation with a power car at each end brings about some real advantages, when passenger figures increased under HST operation BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) ADDED an Extra Carriage to the HST formantions.

Lond distance trains need to have at least 8 carriages so cost new will be 8 x ^500,000 plus 2 power cars cost around ^1.7m each so each HST MKII would cost around ^7.4million per train.

An 8 car unit will cost at least ^8million.

Of course you (the Passenger) have a much more pleasant ride in haulaged stock than a unit with engines banging away under the floor, and having engines under the floor causes a cost that nobody tends to think about.
 
Let's say a New HST fleet for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) requires 38 sets in Service, you would need 40 sets to cover the service and have 2 racks of stock in for maintenance, you would need 82 maybe 83 locomotives to cover the Service, Loco servicing with all the parts of an engine take much longer than servicing the carriages.

However when using Units you still need 38 sets in service and 4 or 5 sets Extra needed to cover for servicing, that is the BIG disadvantage that is so often overlooked, whilst engine repairs take place on a Unit the whole rake of carriages is out of traffic.

Some of the saving in using Units is lost in increased Down time and a bigger fleet requirement.

Something else a proper thought out HST MKII would be able to incorperate Diesel and Overhead Electric Traction, not such a big saving on FGW (Yet) but big savings on East Coast and West Coast routes

[vacman]

You pick up on some good points there, but ommitted one in favour of units, when an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) power car fails then usually the train will have to be stopped short of it's destination because of the lac of power, i.e. they're not allowed through Cornwall on one power car, if one engine failes on a Voyager or Adelante then the train can keep going without too much trouble.

[Lee]

Regarding HST^▸ (High Speed Train) 2, here is a link regarding the Intercity Express Programme.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1013.msg5006#msg5006