Slough - Hanwell and third track possibility.

[whole diary]

[James]

Like High Speed 2 which is costing the country billion's of pounds which isnt needed, as a lot of people have protested against.
Or the government generally isnt doing anything, anything to save money, you know cut backs, surely u heard of that no?

[John R]

Like High Speed 2 which is costing the country billion's of pounds which isnt needed, as a lot of people have protested against.

The majority of whom (although not exclusively, in the interests of balance) appear to be affected by the proposals, so would have to declare an interest in any debate. What's interesting is that the proposal still has broad cross party support - not many subjects of national interest are in that position.

[ellendune]

Unfortunately those who benefit from HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) don't live in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area.  They are the small minority of the country (33%) who live in Scotland and the North of England whose views therefore do not count. The same number of people who live in London and the South East are much more important.

Clearly since HS2 will not benefit London and the South East it is a waste of money.  But we have had that argument elsewhere on this forum.

However, spending the same amount of money on moving Heathrow to the Thames Estuary is somehow seen as a really good deal, presumably because those who benefit live in London and the South East.  For the rest of use it will make the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s only hub airport much less accessible.

What percentage of our population live in London and the South East - yes a huge proportion 33%!  So we must do whatever they ask.

Of course those of us who live in the South West (<5%) know we don't count.

[JayMac]

At a cost of around ^1600 per UK^▸ (United Kingdom) tax payer for phases one and two of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), or ^160 per year for the 10 years to build it, then everyone in the UK is affected by the proposals to build HS2.

I'd like to see the ^43 billion (a recent jump of ^10 billion in the estimated cost) earmarked for HS2 phases one and two, spent on rail infrastructure nationwide, not on a political/rail industry vanity project, the business case for which has certainly not convinced me. Or indeed many who have looked at the project from a neutral standpoint.

Ask most taxpayers if they'd like a high speed rail line at a cost to them of ^160 a year for 10 years and you may just find that wide public support for HS2 isn't there. On the flip side, ask those same people if they'd like to see a portion of that ^160 spent on public transport provision in and around the area they live, then they may just be more amenable.

Of course, the individual taxpayer has no direct say in where the money paid to the treasury in tax is actually spent.

[ellendune]

I'd like to see the ^43 billion (a recent jump of ^10 billion in the estimated cost) earmarked for HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) phases one and two, spent on rail infrastructure nationwide, not on a political/rail industry vanity project, the business case for which has certainly not convinced me. Or indeed many who have looked at the project from a neutral standpoint.

And why are you considering it to be a vanity project?  Is it because the opponents have mounted a publicity campaign to say so.  All we hear in the press says that.  So we all believe it.  Their arguments were so good that a court has thrown out their case. 

Of course we could provide some additional capacity on the West Coast Main Line by small improvements (such as the work at Stafford which has just started), but in the end it needs another pair of tracks.  You can either put this on the existing route which would entail building at night and at weekends - which would massively increase the cost and would be incredibly disruptive to existing customers. Also since it would go through all the towns on route it will involve demolishing many more buildings. 

Providing additional capacity on the West Coast Main Line also has some knock-on benefits to the East Coast Mail Line and the Midland Main Line. So it makes sense to do the job properly.  Unfortunately it does not provide benefits for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) passengers, though some of us also venture north so would benefit on those occasions.

Sorry Mods wandered off topic.

[James]

Only reason why i wrote this post in the first place, is that in the longer term trains from the Thames Valley east of Reading would use the relief lines instead of crossing onto mains which of course at present reduces capacity during the peak times for Intercity services not to mention the possible punctuality problems that they may face.

Now that we know that Crossrail will terminate at Maidenhead as planned, it would be a good idea to run Crossrail services of at least 1tph from Henley, 1tph from Bourne End and these would of course run relief line only.
The other 4 tph would run from Maidenhead, however it's silly to run a shuttle between Reading and Slough of 2 tph when you could run 2 crossrail trains per hour (peak times) from Reading to Central London.

Plus of course, the non stop trains, from Maidenhead that currently use the mainlines should run relief line only, by calling at; Slough and possibly Ealing Broadway, with a possible increase in journey times but at least the trains would run as 10 car units, Although this plan may be a cause of tension and protest if it became reality.

[Electric train]

Now that we know that Crossrail will terminate at Maidenhead as planned, it would be a good idea to run Crossrail services of at least 1tph from Henley, 1tph from Bourne End and these would of course run relief line only.
The other 4 tph would run from Maidenhead, however it's silly to run a shuttle between Reading and Slough of 2 tph when you could run 2 crossrail trains per hour (peak times) from Reading to Central London.

Oh that'll be fun running 10 car trains on to Bourne End which only has a 5 car platform not to mention Cookham and Furze Platt and the Henley branch is the same.

Crossrail will I am sure start out terminating at Maidenhead in 2018/9 my guess will a couple of years after a change will be made to run Crossrail to Reading.

[James]

Oh that'll be fun running 10 car trains on to Bourne End which only has a 5 car platform not to mention Cookham and Furze Platt and the Henley branch is the same.

Well if that is a problem, then because Maidenhead is going to be the terminating point, the train would divide at Maidenhead with one portion for Henley (5 CAR) and one portion for Bourne End (5 CAR), however it also depends on how long the 5 car train will be... and if needs be the platform at Bourne End may need lengthening with realigned track if the platform will get in the way of it. At Henley it isn't a problem as the platform could be lengthened with possible track realignment.
With Furze Platt the only direction the platform could be lengthened is northwards, likewise Cookham can only be lengthened southwards. I have no knowledge about Wargrave and Shiplake stations, however if needs be the selective door option would need to be operational. At the end of the day the people of the Marlow and Henley branch would also like a direct crossrail service to london, and if that means spending money for this to happen then so be it. Its a risk yes but worth a try...




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[Network SouthEast]

Oh that'll be fun running 10 car trains on to Bourne End which only has a 5 car platform not to mention Cookham and Furze Platt and the Henley branch is the same.

Well if that is a problem, then because Maidenhead is going to be the terminating point, the train would divide at Maidenhead with one portion for Henley (5 CAR) and one portion for Bourne End (5 CAR), however it also depends on how long the 5 car train will be... and if needs be the platform at Bourne End may need lengthening with realigned track if the platform will get in the way of it. At Henley it isn't a problem as the platform could be lengthened with possible track realignment.

The Crossrail trains aren't going to be two 5 car trains coupled together, they are going to be just one train made of 10 carriages. They will be the same length all day on all routes. So all 10 carriages would need to go to Bourne End or Henley.

I personally think the idea is a non starter. I think Crossrail trains carrying on beyond Maidenhead to Reading, rather than Henley or Bourne End would be a better option.



Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[James]

Oh that'll be fun running 10 car trains on to Bourne End which only has a 5 car platform not to mention Cookham and Furze Platt and the Henley branch is the same.

Well if that is a problem, then because Maidenhead is going to be the terminating point, the train would divide at Maidenhead with one portion for Henley (5 CAR) and one portion for Bourne End (5 CAR), however it also depends on how long the 5 car train will be... and if needs be the platform at Bourne End may need lengthening with realigned track if the platform will get in the way of it. At Henley it isn't a problem as the platform could be lengthened with possible track realignment.

The Crossrail trains aren't going to be two 5 car trains coupled together, they are going to be just one train made of 10 carriages. They will be the same length all day on all routes. So all 10 carriages would need to go to Bourne End or Henley.

I personally think the idea is a non starter. I think Crossrail trains carrying on beyond Maidenhead to Reading, rather than Henley or Bourne End would be a better option.

I really don't know why, but i read some where that the trains would be 5 car sets instead of being a long 10 car unit. If it happens to be just a 10 car train then, it's not designed correctly. Whats the point of electrifying the branches if Crossrail trains cant even run down them? Its a waste of money yet again.



Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[Network SouthEast]

I really don't know why, but i read some where that the trains would be 5 car sets instead of being a long 10 car unit. If it happens to be just a 10 car train then, it's not designed correctly. Whats the point of electrifying the branches if Crossrail trains cant even run down them? Its a waste of money yet again.

The branches were never due to be electrified as part of Crossrail.

The branches are being electrified as part of the Thames Valley branches scheme, which will see the Windsor, Bourne End and Henley lines electrified. Because of the wider GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification scheme, the benefits of electrifying the branches will enable the electric fleet of trains to be operated more efficiently, as well as enabling more DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) to be cascaded to other lines.

[James]

The branches were never due to be electrified as part of Crossrail.

The branches are being electrified as part of the Thames Valley branches scheme, which will see the Windsor, Bourne End and Henley lines electrified. Because of the wider GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification scheme, the benefits of electrifying the branches will enable the electric fleet of trains to be operated more efficiently, as well as enabling more DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) to be cascaded to other lines.

Fair enough. It would have been better to run Crossrail on the reliefs and branches only, rather than other operator running on them as well, regards of the rolling stock used. However i do understand why Crossrail can't be the only operator due to capacity issues. It feels as if the whole crossrail thing will be a nightmare once it starts, slow trains, no direct crossrail services from the thames valley branches and high ticket prices. Rock on Crossrail!



Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[Electric train]

The branches were never due to be electrified as part of Crossrail.

The branches are being electrified as part of the Thames Valley branches scheme, which will see the Windsor, Bourne End and Henley lines electrified. Because of the wider GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification scheme, the benefits of electrifying the branches will enable the electric fleet of trains to be operated more efficiently, as well as enabling more DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) to be cascaded to other lines.

Fair enough. It would have been better to run Crossrail on the reliefs and branches only, rather than other operator running on them as well, regards of the rolling stock used. However i do understand why Crossrail can't be the only operator due to capacity issues. It feels as if the whole crossrail thing will be a nightmare once it starts, slow trains, no direct crossrail services from the thames valley branches and high ticket prices. Rock on Crossrail!

Bit judgemental to say there will be high ticket prices, not too sure if the ticketing has been published yet my guess there will be an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) extension to Maidenhead (like there is to Watford)  There are only 4 through trains on the Bourne End branch now which I believe will continue post Crossrail.

The benefits for Maidenhead passengers using Crossrail will be elimination of changing to / from the Tube at Padd which takes quite a bit of time in the peaks



Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[James]

Fair enough. It would have been better to run Crossrail on the reliefs and branches only, rather than other operator running on them as well, regards of the rolling stock used. However i do understand why Crossrail can't be the only operator due to capacity issues. It feels as if the whole crossrail thing will be a nightmare once it starts, slow trains, no direct crossrail services from the thames valley branches and high ticket prices. Rock on Crossrail!

Bit judgemental to say there will be high ticket prices, not too sure if the ticketing has been published yet my guess there will be an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) extension to Maidenhead (like there is to Watford)  There are only 4 through trains on the Bourne End branch now which I believe will continue post Crossrail.

The benefits for Maidenhead passengers using Crossrail will be elimination of changing to / from the Tube at Padd which takes quite a bit of time in the peaks

Maybe i am judgemental however everything is this place seems to rise and rise in price, so how are people going to believe that the fares may be cheaper?
And who's to say the oyster thingy will come to Maidenhead, and bit out of the way is it not? I suppose at the end of the day who will operate Maidenhead Station will give us a better idea of the available ticket prices.

Yes the direct Crossrail service between Maidenhead and Central London is great, if only it didn't take 40 plus minutes as Crossrail proposes it would. Thats why a third track is needed asap, even now as we speak.



Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[eightf48544]

The mess results from four publicy funded projects affecting the same bit of Railway line.

First there's Crossrail who could only afford, after they'd spent all the money on digging the tunnels, to electrify from just west of Airport Junction Airport to Maidenhead and not Reading. Besides Reading unrebuilt wouldn't have been able to handle  Crossrail.

Then the Reading rebuild was annouced which has some provision for Crossrail.

Then the Great Western Main Line Electrification was approved which would sling the wires West from Maidenhead.

So already you had Crossrail using Networkrail to electrify from Airport Junction to Maidenhead with Networkrail also electryfying West from from Maidenhead. The trouble being although it's all public money it comes from different buckets. The situation is further compicated in that Crossrail was a parliamentary bill which specified in great detail what's to be done whereas GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) elecctrification is just approved by DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) (and the Treasury)

Then someone came up with the idea of electrifying the TV branches, Although not the Greenford one which is in  TFL^▸ (Transport for London) territory! This adds the complication that there will be two local servcie operaors. One Crossrail workng from Maidenhead through the tunnels and a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) local service working from Oxford/Newbury to Padd  plus the branches.

A properly planned integrated railway!