TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 6596
The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
|
 |
« on: July 24, 2013, 22:08:48 » |
|
The BBC» News is reporting a serious rail accident in Galicia, Northern Spain. Four carriages have derailed, and 35 are confirmed to have died at this stage. Spanish train in deadly derailment A train has derailed in north-western Spain, with at least 10 people reported killed.  Spanish railway company Renfe confirmed the train had come off the tracks near the city of Santiago de Compostela in the Galicia region. A Renfe spokesman told AFP news agency several people had been killed and several more injured. Spanish news agency Efe quoted police and hospital sources as saying at least 50 people were injured. Reports said all 13 carriages had left the tracks, and four carriages had overturned completely. Images showed dozens of emergency workers crowded around ruined carriages. Passengers were shown lying on the ground being treated. Renfe said the train carried more than 200 passengers, and was on the express route between Madrid and Ferrol on the Galician coast. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 22:16:38 by Four Track, Now! »
|
Logged
|
Now, please!
|
|
|
|
JayMac
|
|
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 23:10:54 » |
|
My thoughts go out to the victims of this latest horrific incident. That's three major train crashes in developed countries in the month of July.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
|
|
|
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 6596
The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
|
|
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 06:49:40 » |
|
It is absolutely awful, made worse if that is possible by it being the start of a holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Now, please!
|
|
|
|
Chris from Nailsea
|
|
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 10:18:28 » |
|
An update, from the BBC» : Dozens die as Spanish train derails in Galicia
A train has derailed in north-western Spain, killing at least 77 of its 218 passengers and injuring more than 100, officials in the Galicia region say.
All eight carriages of the Madrid to Ferrol train came off the tracks near the city of Santiago de Compostela.
Media reports say the train may have been travelling at more than twice the speed limit around a curve.
Officials have not commented on the cause. Analysts say it is the worst train accident in Spain in 40 years.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
|
|
|
|
stuving
|
|
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 11:20:10 » |
|
I have found this Spanish Wikipedia page (translatable) that fills in some technical details absent from the news reports: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidente_ferroviario_en_Santiago_de_Compostela_de_2013This was an Alvia service, using both a new high-speed line (well under half the distance) and existing lines. It was a class 730, made by Talgo and also what I would call a "Talgo" (articulated) train. It changes gauge en route. The HS▸ line runs up to Santiago on a new straight alignment, then follows an existing line into the station. This alignment is sharply curved by HS standards, due to the position and alignment on the station. The derailment happened just as the train came to the first of these curves (400-500 m radius), so the reports of excessive speed do make sense. This is a recently opened line (this year or last), so on-line details may be out of date. Google's maps are very old (2007), Bing's a bit newer. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ChrisB
|
|
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 11:30:13 » |
|
I can't believe they've started (now finished?) removing the broken train....the HSE▸ held Hatfield train for 3 weeks while the investigation took place....
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
stuving
|
|
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 11:53:37 » |
|
The French railways and judicial authorities have been criticised for not sealing the relevant part of the Br^tigny-sur-Orge site. However, I do not see that the relevant part is where the train stopped in either of these cases, it is where it derailed. The rolling stock may be implicated in some derailments, but the initial railway inspection should determine pretty soon which vehicle came off first. Why hold the rest, when we know passengers can end up underneath carriages? In Santiago only the leading power car would be relevant in that sense.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
broadgage
|
|
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 12:11:26 » |
|
I can't believe they've started (now finished?) removing the broken train....the HSE▸ held Hatfield train for 3 weeks while the investigation took place....
Indeed, no matter how tragic a disaster may be, there is much to be said for removing the resultant debris promptly rather than closing the line for days or weeks. Unless they already know the cause of the disaster, then an inquiry should be held and lessons learnt. The train had a data recorder, and there seems plenty of photgraphic evidence of the immediate aftermath, therefore little point in preserving the wreckage for detailed on site investigation. Initial reports on the BBC» website and elswhere suggest that the train was travelling well in excess of the permitted speed. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
|
|
|
|
stuving
|
|
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 12:16:21 » |
|
Excess speed is confirmed by some footage from a trackside surveillance camera right at the scene - shocking in its violence.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ChrisB
|
|
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2013, 12:39:26 » |
|
eeuuww......looks as though the rake of coaches separated and derailed as the lead power car tried to go round the curve. Only some way round did the G forces see to the power car, by which time the leading coach had collided with the wall
Speed def the issue.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
broadgage
|
|
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 12:48:53 » |
|
Yes, certainly looks like excessive speed.
Although I have not attempted to calculate the speed, I presume that others have.
The spacing between the OHLE supports or other structures is surely known, and from this the train speed may be determined at least approximatly.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
|
|
|
|
Thatcham Crossing
|
|
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 14:07:55 » |
|
According to a BBC» report I've just seen, the line speed at the accident site is 80kmh (50mph). Just looking at it as it comes into view, it's got to be doing double that. Shocking.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
thetrout
|
|
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 14:35:30 » |
|
What's interesting is that it's the middle of the train that starts the derailment. I've travelled on these Alvia trains and they can travel up to 155 mph. It does seem like excessive speed. However I also noticed that the train wasn't tilting around the corner. There was an unconfirmed report that the driver stated he was doing 180 kph. So it does seem like excessive speed. However it is possible that it was a safety system failure that caused the driver to travel too fast. Of course, my sympathies to all those involved in this hideous disaster. Truly terrible. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
ChrisB
|
|
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2013, 15:10:53 » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Click on the map to explore geographics
