Changes to cycle policy - 3/4 Aug 13

[whole diary]

[lordgoata]

I'm sure there was a thread around regarding enforcement of bikes on trains that state no bikes, but I can't seem to find it now. However, I was pleased to see this being enforced this morning at Reading.

The 0721 (I think) from Oxford is usually a Class 180, and no bikes, but this morning it was a lovely cosy 2 carriage 166/165! Needless to say it was quite a squeeze. Anyway, we pulled into Reading (late) and a fair few passengers got off, then some bloke jumped on with his bike quicker than Mr Bolt. The rest of the passengers got on, and it wasn't too bad (reaching Twyford and Maidenhead would soon change that), and one of the dispatchers wandered up and, I assume as I was too far away to hear, asked the passenger to get off with the bike.

Needless to say he ignored him. Cue another dispatcher, who obviously repeated the request whilst said passenger ranted on. Dispatcher #2 then gets on train, grabs the bike and drags it towards the door. Passenger now quite angry, refusing to let go of the bike, or get off. After a few minutes the dispatcher just grabbed the darn thing and dragged him and the bike off the train, stood in front of the doors and sent us on our way, somewhat later than we already were.

Just as well, as Twyford was heaving, and as for Maidenhead, God knows how many were left behind!

The dispatchers did a great job getting the moron off, and getting us on our way as quickly as possible.

And before anyone says I am anti-bike, I've been cycling longer than I care to remember, but the arrogance of some of these cyclists on the train never ceases to amaze me.

[grahame]

I couldn't help thinking of the wheelchair space post I made last night ...

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=12974.msg140304#msg140304

... and wondering what the situation would be on this cosy 16x for a potential passenger in a wheelchair, who's chair for one person could have prevented another three or four from getting on at Maidenhead.

[ChrisB]

I don't believe 2car 166s actually exist (in normal formation - I guess the middle unit could be extracted for maintenance?)

[mjray]

The dispatchers did a great job getting the moron off, and getting us on our way as quickly as possible.

And before anyone says I am anti-bike, I've been cycling longer than I care to remember, but the arrogance of some of these cyclists on the train never ceases to amaze me.

Poor chap - he was probably just trying to get to his destination on time. There's a complete lack of clarity on cycles and trains, with several different rules across GW^▸ (Great Western) depending on stations, time of day, type of train and probably other stuff.  Sometimes even the staff get confused (like a 6 bike train substituting for a 2 bike one, as often happened on the Bristol-Taunton section - does the 2 bikes a train rule still apply?), so I can understand someone standing their ground to see if they get away with it.

Actually, I just checked http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/~/media/PDF/AboutUs/CyclingPolicy/Cycle-by-train-May-2013-for-Web.ashx and it mentions restrictions on arrivals at Paddington or Reading 0745-0945, but no restriction FROM Reading to stations other than Paddington at that time.  I can see how someone could interpret it as banning bikes from any train that would eventually go to Paddington at that time, but it's not clear. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that he had phoned up earlier and been told that you can take two bikes on a train, with no mention of peak time restrictions affecting his particular journey.

[ChrisB]

I can see how someone could interpret it as banning bikes from any train that would eventually go to Paddington at that time, but it's not clear.

I think it is clear with a tad of thought.

Why on earth would you be NOT allowed to take a bike on any train all the way to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), but be able to go to Ealing on the same train (assuming it stopped), for example? If they're banned from trains going to PAD, then that means any station it might stop at between you & PAD. Not simply PAD. Sorry, but that's just doh!

[grahame]

Why on earth would you be NOT allowed to take a bike on any train all the way to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), but be able to go to Ealing on the same train ...

Because the train gets fuller all the way in and on the very last leg wouldn't have the capacity, Chris!

Some odd rules about trains that originate at Westbury and Frome ... you can't board with a cycle onto trains which originate or terminate at those two specific places except at Newbury, Reading and Paddington.  So at Pewsey in the morning peak, with reservation, you can get on the 06:22 (from Bristol), 07:19 (from Exeter) and 08:09 (from Plymouth), but not the 06:33 from Frome.   And in the evening, the 18:06 to Frome isn't available for cycles to Pewsey (arr 19:35), but the 18:33 (are 19:47) is because that one goes on further.  I'm sure there's logic there, but I can't see it!

[mjray]

Why on earth would you be NOT allowed to take a bike on any train all the way to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), but be able to go to Ealing on the same train (assuming it stopped), for example? If they're banned from trains going to PAD, then that means any station it might stop at between you & PAD. Not simply PAD. Sorry, but that's just doh!

You might think that it's only PAD because that's exactly a type of restriction that First Capital Connect uses! http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/static/filemanager/cycle_restrictions_map.jpg defines 3 levels of ban zone around London and one around Cambridge but says "Cycles are permitted at all times on trains between stations not in zones A, B, C or D".

First could learn something about clarity from... erm... First.

[TonyK]

The above said, I have often wondered exactly how much support/opposition a campaign to restore the railway and/or banish the cyclists (and I guess banishing walkers and other path users too if you are going the whole hog) would get, and I for one would watch with great interest if FTN/Red Squirrel/trainer were to start one up...

I hope you don't see we cyclists as nothing but a load of lycra-clad fascists...

[grahame]

Why are there no bike racks - or indeed any other provision at all - for the carriage of even one bicycle on buses? 

A quick Google to answer that question and disprove the assertion. 

http://blog.golakes.co.uk/special-bike-ride-bus-service-set-to-launch-in-the-lake-district/

Having checked, the service is running again this year also:

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/PdfUploads/Timetable_35679_800%20(Kendal%20Bike%20Bus).pdf

There's also another service which started this year:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-23110211

From tiny acorns....

And another ...

http://www.focustransport.org/2019/04/borders-buses.html

Borders Buses

The company has acquired brand new bike friendly double-deck buses in the shape of three Alexander Dennis E40D Enviro400 MMC registered SK19 ELV/W/X. These custom built vehicles were designed with cyclists in mind and will operate on the route X62 between Edinburgh and Melrose.

continues

[CyclingSid]

The former boss of Reading Buses, now with First West of England, has suggested bike trailers for buses https://road.cc/content/news/257482-buses-west-england-get-trailers-bikes. Putting bikes on the front of buses American style is illegal in this country, and the requirement for wheelchairs and buggies in buses left trailers as the option.

I detect a certain lack of enthusiasm on his part, probably a case of showing willing to his political masters. Speaking to bus crew in Reading they laughed the idea out of court.

[mjray]

Putting bikes on the front of buses American style is illegal in this country, and the requirement for wheelchairs and buggies in buses left trailers as the option.

Sort of. The obstacle is the DVSA irrationally refusing to approve the front racks permitted in the USA, Canada, NZ, Australia, Russia and probably other countries, based on a theoretical danger to pedestrians not realised anywhere the racks have been introduced, and it's illegal to operate them without that approval. So, we're limited to slow and unsafe rear racks or even slower loading/unloading trailers, which makes bikes on buses basically tourist-only.

www.bikesonbuses.com has a lot more info on the problem.

[grahame]

The obstacle is the DVSA irrationally refusing to approve the front racks permitted in the USA, Canada, NZ, Australia, Russia ....

Where it seems to be a well used facility in the likes of Los Angeles, where (of all places / countries) you would expect hypercare to be taken to avoid any risk of litigation if anything went wrong.  If works in Los Angeles, why can't it work in Los Twithiel?

[ellendune]

This follows a big campaign against SUV's fitted with so called bull bars due to higher fatalities and serious injuries from vehicle/pedestrian accidents.  I think that DVSA or whoever may have a point on this one.   

[mjones]

Although bull bars are still being used.

[mjray]

Bus drivers are meant to be trained to a somewhat higher standard than SUV drivers and, as mjones says, plenty of bull bars are in use. As ever, the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) allows the near-useless, but bans things that would help cycling.