HOOP - High Output Overhead line equipment Plant - coming to Great Western

[whole diary]

[Electric train]

A "National Freight Spine" is being electrified on the back of the GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification; Reading / Basingstoke, the re-electrification Basingstoke / Southampton and the extension of the GW electrification North of Oxford through to Coventry and Nuneaton.  Part of the reason for electrification of EWrail is part of the National Freight Spine.

Hopefully Network Rail will deliver the current schemes to time and budget and the ripple effect will take hold which as already happened to a degree with the proposed electrification of the TV Branches

[onthecushions]

It is true BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) did have electrification construction trains, they were not "factory trains" as the HOOP is portrayed to be.

BR's foundation train, basically a train of cement mixers that were loaded from a batching plant in the construction depot, the train in latter years had a excavator although many foundations were hand dug during the week next to the open railway (rules were different in those days).  The foundation train would run out on a weekend night or mid week and drop the re-bar in an pour the concrete around a polystyrene former, in later years holding down bolts were cast in for bolted base masts.

BR then had a train with a crane, an adapted 12 Tonne PW^▸ (Permanent Way) crane that lifted the masts in place where they used a polystyrene former this was melted out with acetone and the mast grouted in.  For large portals the 75 Tonne breakdown cranes were used, it was all Mechanical & Electrical Engineers Dept in those days

BR's wiring these were indeed converted rolling stock the roofs were flatten off, so the linesmen could walk along as the train moved along, the problem with these trains is they did not have any guard rails there was a risk of falling off, which did happen, needless to say elf n safety did not like these.  During the construction of North Pole the use of wiring trains was not allowed by the depot construction contractors caused a panic for the BR construction engineer at the time.

So yes BR did have construction trains, long gone now they would have evolved I guess if we as a nation had not just stopped electrifying railways 30 years ago

Many thanks for the details  from your rich experience.

OTC

[paul7575]

The Network Rail electrification RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) already proposed a nationwide rolling programme of wiring, and it is currently being updated to reflect that plans have since moved on, and that various CP4^▸ (Control Period 4 - the five year period between 2009 and 2014) and CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) projects are being carried out or firmed up for delivery, such as the MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) and EWR.  As main routes become complete the BCR^▸ (Benefit Cost Ratio) improves for many secondary links, it's all explained in the existing RUS, but I reckon the update will be likely to include far more detail.

The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) inspired order for 204 DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) vehicles was cancelled whilst in progress as a result of being overtaken by electrification plans, with most commentators assuming that was the end of major DMU orders.

I don't think the situation is as bleak as sometime suggested...

[trainer]

I don't think the situation is as bleak as sometime suggested...

I understand what you mean Paul, and in many respects the railways are doing well in what is turning out to be a tough time for individuals and businesses.  However, without ignoring economics, a vision of what the railways could be if piecemeal party politically schemes did not hamstring their development would give a sense of direction and a goal. That would end the feeling that any growth is incidental to a strategy rather than at the core of it.  The RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) always makes good reading (no irony intended), but look at Crossrail and HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) to see how political expediency delays and prevaricates over what most people agree are sensible projects for the country.

[ellendune]

And as for rail electrification on a wider scale than currently funded/proposed - think how much more we could do by ditching HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)).

Yes we could electrify all the lines so that as a country we were not so dependant on oil. But then with the growth in traffic the West Coast Main Line, the East Coast Main Line and Probably the Midland Main Line would have such appalling reliability statistics that there would be an outcry and there would be no room for freight.

Then when oil becomes so expensive that it rules out road transport we would not be able to move goods or people around the country so the economy would collapse even though we had electrified all the lines.

Think how well we coped when there was a fuel strike in 2001?

[TonyK]

I don't think the situation is as bleak as sometime suggested...

I understand what you mean Paul, and in many respects the railways are doing well in what is turning out to be a tough time for individuals and businesses.  However, without ignoring economics, a vision of what the railways could be if piecemeal party politically schemes did not hamstring their development would give a sense of direction and a goal. That would end the feeling that any growth is incidental to a strategy rather than at the core of it.  The RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) always makes good reading (no irony intended), but look at Crossrail and HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) to see how political expediency delays and prevaricates over what most people agree are sensible projects for the country.

No truer words ever spoken! 40% of railway in UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is already electric, yet 60% of journeys are on electric trains. That number includes the less-than-ideal third and fourth rail systems, and it is difficult to see any new project other than a tramway being electrified at anything other than 25kv AC. EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) and electric locos typically are expected to last 30 years, with a midlife refurb. So on the day a new train goes into service, we have a good idea of the day it will retire. There is typically a 10-year lead in for new schemes - the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) electrification was announced in the early 1980s, only to be cancelled and re-announced and cancelled again before being actually started. There was no reason for this other than political inertia. My idea would at least mean that any government tampering with the masterplan would have to say why.

The argument about whether or not to electrify the railway has already been won. As a one-time flier of light aircraft, I understand more than most how the fuel efficiency of a vehicle is affected by the fuel it needs to complete the journey.
Steam was brilliant in opening up mass transit. It still is, but is unsustainable economically. Diesel was the saviour of the railway, being more flexible and more efficient than coal, but electric is surely the future. The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) use two diesel engines to generate electricity to drive the train. That is efficient compared to cars, but hugely inefficient compared to a real electric railway.  Not only do you not have to carry the fuel for the journey with you, so lessening the load, but you can generate the power source away from the cities by the best available method. HOOP is the answer to the conundrum, but the conundrum is not the question.

I bought a new car under the auspices of the then trade in scheme for old bangers. My car was just 10 years old, and did 40 mpg on a certain journey to north Wales, something I thought was brilliant compared to my previous vehicle. The new one did 60 mpg for the same journey, and had it been powered by electricity all the way would have been even better.

Diesel has no long-term future in any kind of transport, let alone public transport. A diesel-powered electricity generator at Avonmouth makes much more sense than importing diesel to power a train, if only because it is more efficient than a wind farm, more likely than a biomass plan where we import some wood from the USA and pretend that the ship emitted nothing  on the voyage.

[ellendune]

Diesel has no long-term future in any kind of transport, let alone public transport.

Totally agree

A diesel-powered electricity generator at Avonmouth makes much more sense than importing diesel to power a train, if only because it is more efficient than a wind farm.

It depends how you define efficient.  If you mean the proportion of energy you get then it is not.  But if you mean CO₂ per kWh then wind beats diesel easily.  If you want to talk about cost per kWh then do you mean at today's electricity and diesel prices or future prices?  All very difficult to determine.

..makes much more sense than importing diesel to power a train, if only because it is more efficient than a wind farm, more likely than a biomass plan where we import some wood from the USA and pretend that the ship emitted nothing  on the voyage.

That never made any sense to anybody other than a politician.  I know some politicians are said to have brains the size of planets, but I have never seen much evidence of it myself.

It might also make sense to a civil servant, with a first class degree in ancient Greek literature, who is put in charge of energy policy.

[Red Squirrel]

You could say that the electric railway is actually (largely) steam-electric; it's just that unlike unlike the diesel-electric system, the locos don't carry the generators round with them. It's the same principle as Brunel's atmospheric railway - put the heavy plant beside the tracks, and transmit power to the locos as they need it.

Edit: typo

[onthecushions]

You could say that the electric railway is actually (largely) steam-electric; it's just that unlike unlike the diesel-electric system, the locos don't carry the generators round with them. It's the same principal as Brunel's atmospheric railway - put the heavy plant beside the tracks, and transmit power to the locos as they need it.

.......and electric trains have steam's great advantage of massive short term overcapacity. Just as a steam loco could start/accelerate/climb with late cut-off (i.e using full boiler pressure for much of the expansion), electric motor currents and powers may exceed continuous ratings by 60 - 70% for short periods. Thus even a humble class 73, max rating 1420kW could give 2350kW for a short time. You'll sometimes see motor ratings as continuous, sometimes as 1-hour. SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) quotes them for 7.5 minutes! The limit of course depends on the temperature the windings' insulation can stand.

Even an MTU^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) Diesel must run out of puff when it reaches its set maximum output.

OTC

[eightf48544]

Apologies if it's been mentioned before the other advantage of diesel is that electric trains are generally quiteter think HST^▸ (High Speed Train) coasting. Plus they don't spew out CO2 and particulates behind them.

Also we will have to bite the bullet and install 6 tracks to Reading/Didcot fortunately due to the broad gauge and space used for old  sidings 6 tracks pass my house puts me 1 track width nearer the trains.

[Chris from Nailsea]

An update, from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

'Factory on wheels' delays rail electrification by a year


The 'HOPS' factory train

It was to be Network Rail's ^40m answer to one of its biggest challenges - turning Brunel's Great Western railway line electric to allow faster, longer and greener trains to run from London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads and beyond to Wales.

Instead, the under-performance of the High Output Plant System, a factory train made up of 23 vehicles, has, according to rail observers, made a big contribution to Network Rail falling at least a year behind schedule and going ^900m over budget on the Great Western electrification project.

Yet the train was supposed to make the job of erecting thousands of electrification masts much easier. Two years ago, Network Rail was boasting about how it would slash years off the project.

Network Rail would not comment on the performance of the train, but admitted there had been "hiccups" on what is the first major rail electrification project in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) for a generation. Rail insiders paint a more calamitous picture.

So what's gone wrong with the Hops train - and what role has it played in Network Rail's current woes?


The HOPS train has been described as a 'factory on wheels'

"The whole electrification project for the Great Western line was really based on the High Output train because of the amount of work it could do so much more quickly," said rail journalist Tony Miles. "The two went hand-in-hand and the completion date was all really based on working out how many miles this high output train would do every day. And the moment it couldn't do that work it was obvious everything was going to fall apart."

The Hops train was supposed to dig holes, put up overhead wire supports, fill the holes with concrete and hang the wires - at the rate of about a mile each night.

Engineering insiders told the BBC that a newly designed wiring system did not match the specification of the holes the Hops train was designed to dig and that a new design of pile-tubes hammered into the ground to house the thousands of electrification masts - went in too deep after ground surveys were missed.

But, according to Roger Ford of Modern Railways magazine, even where the Hops train has managed to dig holes, it has damaged existing signalling cables. For him, the recent decision to "reset" Network Rail's ^38bn maintenance and enhancement programme reveals the size of Network Rail's problems. "It's short on experienced engineers and experienced operators - people who know how to run a railway. One of the problems is we have a lot of people who run Network Rail who know nothing about railways," he said. "I think we just lost the focus on the operational railway."

Network Rail said the scale and complexity of the work on the Great Western line - some 14,000 electrification masts need to be erected - has presented them with "unique challenges". So far, they had dug some 2,000 holes for the masts and erected 600 masts, with the pace increasing every day.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLaughlin has told Parliament that Network Rail must now "pause" its other big projects - including the politically charged electrification of lines in the north of England and the Midlands - and concentrate its efforts on getting the electrification of the Great Western right.

But Louise Ellman, who chairs the Transport Select Committee, questions whether the other projects will get done at all. "Costs have escalated, particularly on the Great Western line where the costs have now trebled, and it seems to be that other programmes might lose out as a result," she said. "What that means in practice is that the work that was planned across the North to electrify the line from Manchester to Leeds and Hull, appears to be paused indefinitely and major works have been stopped on the Midland Mainline - so it's now a big question mark on just what's going to proceed and when."

But, for rail journalists like Tony Miles, just getting the Hops train out of its specially built shed in Swindon - known as the Hoob, or High Output Operating Base - doesn't mean the Great Western electrification is back on solid ground yet.


Network Rail has so far sunk 600 electrification masts: there are some 14,000 needed

Obstacles ahead on the Great Western line include untangling the signal, track and electrics around the listed Bristol Temple Meads station in Bristol - not least because the new inter-city trains bought by the government for this line are too long for Brunel's curved platforms.

"It was decided by the Department for Transport that the new trains will be 26m long per vehicle and our railways are built for 23m long," said Tony Miles. "So if they go around a tightly curved platform the middle bit will scrape on the platform edge. It's simple physics."

The Department for Transport said it was always known that work would be required on the platforms at Bristol Temple Meads to provide the clearance for the new trains - something that was factored into the plans at the start of the project and was part of the overall package of improvements on the line.

The department also assured the BBC that ^38bn is still available to make the improvements needed on the UK's railways and said Network Rail had already delivered some improvements.

Network Rail admitted some of their plans for big projects like the Great Western were "overly optimistic", but would work with its new chairman to re-plan the programme in the next few months. "On the big items like electrification and capital projects, it was always part of the regulatory process that the costs and programme would be revisited as projects became properly defined," said Network Rail chief executive Mark Carne. "Unfortunately when these reviews have occurred, the more detailed project costs have been higher than assumed at the earliest stages of definition. As a result, the total enhancement programme cost now exceeds the available five-year budget. Some projects are also delayed beyond the original dates."

Off track: Network Rail on BBC Radio 4's File on 4 is available to listen to after transmission on Tuesday 7 July at 20:00.

[Tim]

I have a Cousin working at the HOOB as a design engineer.  His view is that many of the problem are caused by starting working before having a good survey of the current state of the infrastructure.  He finds he is still designing things that should have been settled before the work on the ground started as they go along.

It is rumoured that running the bi-mode IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains off the electric for a longer time period and distance that agreed with Hitachi will involve very expensive penalty payments to them. 

[TonyK]

I have a Cousin working at the HOOB as a design engineer.  His view is that many of the problem are caused by starting working before having a good survey of the current state of the infrastructure.  He finds he is still designing things that should have been settled before the work on the ground started as they go along.

The wrong sort of railway, maybe? It seems incredible that basic information about the railway was not available before work commenced, especially with the amount of work done trackside for signalling. I suppose detailed soil surveying etc isn't straightforward when there is a live railway running. Would setailed surveying have reduced the overall cost, though, or made electrification less likely? Could there have been a decision made quietly somewhere not to look too closely until work had got to the point of no return? Discuss.

[Electric train]

I have a Cousin working at the HOOB as a design engineer.  His view is that many of the problem are caused by starting working before having a good survey of the current state of the infrastructure.  He finds he is still designing things that should have been settled before the work on the ground started as they go along.

The wrong sort of railway, maybe? It seems incredible that basic information about the railway was not available before work commenced, especially with the amount of work done trackside for signalling. I suppose detailed soil surveying etc isn't straightforward when there is a live railway running. Would setailed surveying have reduced the overall cost, though, or made electrification less likely? Could there have been a decision made quietly somewhere not to look too closely until work had got to the point of no return? Discuss.

As the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) radio program eluded to far too much faith was placed in the factory train, the old n bold OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") engineers who questioned it were politely told they were out of touch with modern railway engineering practice.

In the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) we have an acute shortage of experienced OLE engineers in all its aspects from the civil engineering (foundations, tunnel and bridge fixings), the catenary systems to power distribution.   The GWEP^▸ (Great Western Electrification Program) power distribution is scarily complex compared with what has been done before certainly in the UK if not the world.

[John R]

It is rumoured that running the bi-mode IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains off the electric for a longer time period and distance that agreed with Hitachi will involve very expensive penalty payments to them. 

Very expensive, or just reflective of the additional maintenance and other costs that will be required on the numerous diesels that will now be required to operate for much longer periods.