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Author Topic: France - railways, public transport, services and incidents (merged posts)  (Read 186885 times)
stuving
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« Reply #150 on: July 08, 2019, 20:16:24 »

Well, it missed the peak off-to-holiday traffic, but it still happened. A two-hour loss of power outside Bordeaux-St-Jean, stopping all trains in and out. One train was within walking distance along the track, as a lot of the passengers confirmed, though there were 15 TGVs (Train a Grande Vitesse) stopped in all. However, I suspect most of those still had power, just nowhere to go. The reason was a bit odd: some issue on the pantograph of a train in the depot led to the power locally being switched off. I have no information as to why it was off for so long over all the running lines.

Meanwhile... (actually last Thursday) 30 km away at Libourne, the press thought they'd found a juicy little story: a driver had hit his limit of hours and abandoned his goods train in the station - and it was carrying armoured vehicles for the Bastille Day parade which needed to be guarded at all times! More than that, it was operated by a private company, which is a new idea in France. But later on SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) sheepishly admitted it was theirs, but claimed the line was OK to use as a goods loop, and the train arrived by the promised time even if it took four hours to get another driver there.

I guess Frét SNCF now have to apply to SNCF Réseau for one-off paths in the same way as other operators. Incidentally, on Frét SCNF's landing page it says:
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24/7 tracking
Our sales teams are ready to help you meet your challenges, both locally and internationally. We’re present throughout France, and our offices are open 24/7, so we can track your shipments in real time.
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #151 on: July 20, 2019, 14:02:21 »

I see from https://www.sncf.com/en/booking-itinerary/traffic-info/gl that SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) hope to restore the through TGV (Train a Grande Vitesse) services to Italy via Modane gradually from July 23 onwards.
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stuving
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« Reply #152 on: October 03, 2019, 17:13:10 »

Another near miss at a level crossing, this time at Saint-Eulalie on the northern edge of Bordeaux (No 508). Yesterday at about 8:15/8:30, a TransGironde service 301 bus from Libourne to Lormont, carrying about 10 teenagers to school, was caught in traffic, still on a crossing, when the barriers closed. The driver moved forward as far as he could, pushing one car as he did so, while the passengers rushed to the front (he refused to open the doors). The train missed the back of the bus by centimetres - but reports differ as to whether it stopped short or shot past (on the other track it could not have passed).

What led to this was traffic queuing back from the traffic lights on the main road (Avenue de l'Aquitaine), 110 m from the crossing. The driver admitted that he misjudged the space for his bus (or, I suspect, how far the cars in front would keep moving). Obviously everyone is being pretty rude about the bus driver, who has been suspended from work. The local maire was also talking about the urgent need to close this LC (Level Crossing) (PN), and it turns out it's on SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways)'s little list (with 509, on a lane leading to the gare de Sainte-Eulalie - Carbon-Blanc). I can see two trains that might have been involved - 8:21 not stopping or 8:48 stopping at Sainte-Eulalie - Carbon-Blanc. Presumably the stopping train would have slowed enough to make its braking in time more likely. The first train is listed as arriving on time; the second 5 minutes late. (But note that the information in bulletins de retard does not seem to be at all reliable.)

That leads to the question about what the response should be to a near miss, but a very serious one - and of a sensitive kind in France. The bus driver exchanged details with the driver he'd shunted, and drove on - later calling base to say he'd had an accident, but not mentioning trains! That must have made his later interview with his boss even frostier. I've not seen any news yet about the SNCF response at the time, though they would have gone out to examine and test the crossing as a matter of course. But did the train really proceed to Bordeaux almost immediately?
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stuving
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« Reply #153 on: May 21, 2020, 23:34:07 »

The line through Millas reopened today - well over two years on from the accident. Most of that time it was a court's decision (which closed the road as well), lifted last October, followed by works to the crossing (inevitably extended by YKW). Further up, part of the line is closed due to storm (Gloria) damage, and buses will fill in until that is fixed.

The rework hasn't touched one of the key factors specific to this crossing: the side road, very close to the track, that the bus came out of. If you remember, it was only just possible to turn the bus in the space, which left very little time with a clear straight-ahead view of the barrier and lights before reaching them. 

Feelings are, not surprisingly, still rather raw, notably among the parents of children who still make that trip by bus every day. The train times have been changed, and some kind of warning to the school of late running provided, so as to avoid a train and a bus being close to coinciding at the crossing. But it probably didn't help anyone's nerves that only a few days ago the barriers failed to rise after a train had passed. Failed safe, but still ...
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stuving
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« Reply #154 on: June 12, 2020, 19:35:00 »

Le Parisen reported this morning that one of the three SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) (then RFF) employees implicated in the case, and previously "witnesses under caution", has been mis en examen - charged with a criminal offence, roughly. The prosecutors' office at Evry has confirmed only that step about an unnamed SNCF employee.

The newspaper report says more, that it was the local track maintenance manager (the other two being his direct reports). He did the last inspection before the accident, and the independent engineering reports said (based largely on the state of the fracture surfaces) that the relevant trackwork damage was present at that time.

It was announced today by the prosecutors that the case (for manslaughter, more or less) against both SCNF and the individual already charged will go to court next year.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 23:50:34 by stuving » Logged
TonyK
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« Reply #155 on: June 16, 2020, 23:09:38 »

It was announced today by the prosecutors that the case (for manslaighter, more or less) against both SCNF and the individual already charged will go to court next year.

I know it's a complex matter, but eight years is a long, long time to have the sword of Damocles over your head.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 09:51:52 by TonyK » Logged

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GBM
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« Reply #156 on: June 18, 2020, 09:47:14 »

Our UK (United Kingdom) system doesn't take that long to bring cases forward do they?
It seems the French system drags on far longer than ours, so are their systems more effective than ours; which could mean we convict when perhaps we should take longer to investigate?
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TonyK
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« Reply #157 on: June 18, 2020, 10:08:12 »

Our UK (United Kingdom) system doesn't take that long to bring cases forward do they?
It seems the French system drags on far longer than ours, so are their systems more effective than ours; which could mean we convict when perhaps we should take longer to investigate?

I can remember a time when the UK system, or at least England and Wales, did drag on and on. I think it was back in the 1980s that a series of legal reforms were introduced to speed things up without detriment to the accused, mostly by making more things triable in Magistrates' Courts rather than Crown, and tidying up the administration. There are many more paid judges in the lower court these days, which helps. Cases are sent to Crown Court at an earlier stage, with progress directed by the judge rather than by magistrates. All that, of course, can only happen once the investigation has been completed and a prima facie case established for someone to answer. I struggle to think of any aspect of this that could have taken 7 years to establish.
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stuving
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« Reply #158 on: June 18, 2020, 10:50:59 »

Our UK (United Kingdom) system doesn't take that long to bring cases forward do they?
It seems the French system drags on far longer than ours, so are their systems more effective than ours; which could mean we convict when perhaps we should take longer to investigate?

Remember that this is a high-profile corporate liability case, and against a nationalised industry too. In France individuals are commonly cited in these, and they do drag on for reasons that are hard to see - commissioning lots of expert reports into expert reports is part of that, I think. I don't think France is particularly bad in this respect, but maybe it is in the length of time it takes for the appeals processes to (almost always) eventually overturn personal convictions.

In this country such cases have generally not happened, and guilty verdicts have been rare - and I'm not sure how much that has changed, though police investigations are now usual. Even with a big press campaign to get a case started, and another to get a prosecution, liability for manslaughter could not be proved against an organisation without finding a "single controlling mind". So corporate manslaughter was invented*, but proving “senior management failure” has been so hard that convictions are still rare. And of course individuals are in effect still excluded.

*The Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007
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TonyK
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« Reply #159 on: June 18, 2020, 11:20:13 »


Remember that this is a high-profile corporate liability case, and against a nationalised industry too. In France individuals are commonly cited in these, and they do drag on for reasons that are hard to see - commissioning lots of expert reports into expert reports is part of that, I think. I don't think France is particularly bad in this respect, but maybe it is in the length of time it takes for the appeals processes to (almost always) eventually overturn personal convictions.


I appreciate all that, and agree with your thoughts. Corporate manslaughter here would not preclude the prosecution of an individual if they were to perform a criminal act or omission, but yes, companies have to be brought to book if they do wrong in telling employees what to do or how to do it.

The expert reports will have been commissioned by both sides, or course, with the winner being the one with the more expensive experts as a general rule of thumb. The court in England and Wales, and the investigator in France, will work through these with both sides, holding in effect trials of the evidence and looking for the areas where both sides agree, so that the eventual trial will focus only on what remains in dispute, what actually happened, and why it happened. That takes time, and lots of arguments, but leaving it to rumble on for so long runs the risk of people growing old, infirm or dying, with the possibility of a whole new set of arguments about whose memory of the events is the most accurate. Justice may prevail, but it might look a little pale by the time it is done.
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« Reply #160 on: July 14, 2020, 17:18:55 »

Interviewed today, French President Macron has announced a massive development in rail freight, a reintroduction of overnight sleeper services and redevelopment of services on minor lines. Badly needed after the last decade of "nothing but TGV (Train a Grande Vitesse)"!
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stuving
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« Reply #161 on: July 14, 2020, 18:22:04 »

There's not a lot of detail on this, as it's going to be part of the EU» (European Union - about) relaunch package and that's not due to be announced until September. A global figure of at least €100Bn is being given, but that has to be shared by a lot of other green stuff - insulating schools, care home, and houses included.
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« Reply #162 on: July 27, 2020, 01:11:22 »

I fancy the idea of retiring to a cottage in the countryside - to an old station that's perhaps disused but has trains passing by occasionally, or is open and used by a smattering of passengers.

- A rail enthusiast property developer is currently redeveloping the historic station building at Pontivy, which still sees fairly regular freight trains, and you could view these at your leisure from one of the 4 duplex apartments being built on the upper levels. He is doing this in conjunction with the local authorities, who are building one of your favourite things in the whole wide world - a bus/rail interchange! This will include a new waiting hall, ticket office and retail space on the ground floor, the idea being to integrate regional bus, local bus, cycle routes etc with the revived tourist passenger trains that were due to start this summer but, thanks to Covid-19, are more likely now in 2021 as a first step to full passenger rail reopening - thus creating grahame heaven in the process.

Here is a translated article from Reporterre on hopes for the renovation and restoration of passenger trains on the Saint Brieuc-Pontivy-Auray line as part of the Macron initiative:

Quote from: Reporterre
Closed for thirty years, the TER railway line which crosses Brittany from north to south could resume service. At the initiative of this possible renaissance, a collective of railway workers and a train enthusiast who campaign for the return of rail to rural areas.

The ballet of TER coaches makes the windows of buildings vibrate around the Pontivy bus station (Morbihan). Travelers protect themselves from the July sun under the only bus shelter, planted at the corner of the car park. Since the station closed in 2014, it's the only place to wait. But not for long. In a few months, the renovated building will reopen its doors to the public, thanks to Jean-Philippe Van Walleghem . This entrepreneur, passionate about trains, has invested 1 million euros to buy and renovate the station of this sub-prefecture of 15,000 inhabitants, abandoned since the collapse of part of its ceiling.

The work is progressing well. That morning, the workers carefully install the new clock on the pediment. “  A clock is the heart of a station,  ” smiles the new owner. In a few months, an SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) counter will be installed there. And Jean-Philippe Van Walleghem does not intend to stop there. “  The reopening of the station is the first step. The ultimate goal is the return of the passenger train  !  "

It has been thirty years since Pontivy has not welcomed a single one. The railway line going from Saint-Brieuc (Côtes-d'Armor) to Auray via the city only sees a few freight wagons circulating. It is therefore by bus that the inhabitants go to the neighboring department, for a carbon footprint nearly twice as high. “  We have to bring trains back here. Buying the station is a militant act  , ” says Jean-Philippe Van Walleghem, a construction helmet adorned with the inscription “  station master  ” on the head.

And he is not alone. At his side, around fifty elected officials, activists and citizens are united in the collective “  Center-Bretagne en train  ”, founded two years ago to revive the rail link between the north and the south of Brittany. . The challenge is twofold: to increase freight and, above all, to get passengers back on track. The key is to open up the area and reduce road traffic.

“  When you look at the map of the region's rail network, there's a big hole in the middle. It is the center of Brittany  ”, describes Simon Brunet, railway worker member of the CGT and founder of the collective. “  It is a territory which is suffering, which is even declining. Equal treatment between citizens also involves mobility, and bus connections are not a solution for the future.  " 140,000 people live along the line. So many potential passengers.

The idea of ​​relaunching this train link is not new, but the climate emergency has accelerated the thinking. "  The ecological context was the trigger for setting up the collective,  " says the railway worker. A public meeting organized in Pontivy in November 2019 attracted around sixty people. On July 14, Emmanuel Macron announced that he wanted to develop small train lines, freight and night trains. At the same time, citizen initiatives aiming to defend or promote the train are multiplying. The Railcoop cooperative , with which the Breton collective is in contact, thus wants to relaunch the Bordeaux-Lyon train line, abandoned by the SNCF . " We feel that we have an openness, that the context is favorable to the debate  ", rejoices Simon Brunet, "  and we are going to seize it  " .

From his station under construction, Jean-Philippe Van Walleghem also feels this enthusiasm. “  It is not a question of starting trains with three travelers, it would take a market study, suitable schedules… But the community of communes [Pontivy community] has 45,000 inhabitants, that's still quite a crowd  !  " The collective hopes of reopening the Breton online travelers within five years.

It would not be a first, moreover. In 2016, a section of the TER line between Oloron-Sainte-Marie and Bedous, in the Pyrénées-Atlantiques, was put back into operation after fifty years of closure. The cost of 102 million euros was fully covered by the former Aquitaine region. In Brittany, the Auray-Saint-Brieuc project is supported by many local elected officials from north to south of the line. In Saint-Brieuc, the new municipal team of the ecological left is in favor, as is that of Pontivy.

"  But it is those who hold the purse string that must be convinced,  " recalls Simon Brunet. The collective estimates the cost of modernizing and operating the train link at 100 million euros. A sum that would be shared by SNCF Réseau, owner of the rail infrastructure, and the Brittany region, responsible for organizing transport.

The latter does not plan to reopen the line for the moment. "  At this stage, the Brittany region has not taken part in any discussion on the subject,  " said the vice-president for transport, Gérard Lahellec. He recalls that the community has "  agreed to co-finance infrastructure work to allow freight trains to continue to serve businesses in central Brittany  " since 2007. The Brittany region has also invested heavily in the TER , spending 160 million euros to renovate several lines.

“  We understand this position,” says Simon Brunet. As this line is of national importance for freight, the State must also assume its responsibilities.  " The group intends to take advantage of regional elections in March 2021 to highlight the subject of renovation and the creation of small lines. "  We do not want the issue of the train to be confined to speeding up connections with Paris, " said the unionist. Living in the country is a right. To ensure equality between the territories, there must be solidarity between profitable lines and those which are not. The “next world” also goes through this.  "

Pontivy station will reopen its doors in a year. Cap, whistle and SNCF badge , the outfit of station master Jean-Philippe Van Walleghem is already ready. He is convinced: the train will whistle again three times in central Brittany.
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« Reply #163 on: July 27, 2020, 15:22:16 »

About the revived sleeper trains, French press reports quote transport minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari as saying the first would be on the Paris-Nice line, and the second would link Paris with the Pyreneen city of Tarbes.

Until 2017, Paris and Tarbes were linked by the night train known as La Palombe Bleue (the Blue Woodpigeon).

In its previous incarnation the Woodpigeon was extended from Tarbes to Hendaye in the Basque Country on France’s Atlantic coast. Trains left Paris-Austerlitz at 21.52 and arrived in Hendaye at 09.24.

I recently read somewhere about Austrian railways reintroducing night trains, but I can’t recall the details. Perhaps some Coffee Shop reader has the facts?
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« Reply #164 on: July 27, 2020, 16:34:30 »

The French press also reports today that prime minister Jean Castex has outlined plans for increased freight traffic on specialist routes, as well as reduced freight tariffs.

Notably, he intends to revive the Perpignan-Rungis route which, until halted last year, used refrigerated wagons to bring fresh fruit and vegetables from the south of France to Paris’s wholesale market at Rungis. Castex also said the line could be extended at both ends — to Barcelona in the south and Antwerp in the north.

The fresh produce train was controversially discontinued last year, and fruit/veg from Spain, Morocco and southern France is now hauled by lorry.

Castex also announced two new freight routes - from Bayonne near the Spanish border to Cherbourg on the English Channel, and from Sète on the Mediterranean to Calais. Not clear what he envisages these trains will carry.
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