Cheltenham to Kingham?

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

How many buses run Bourne End-Wycombe currently? That's usually an indicator of demand.

[IndustryInsider]

How many buses run Bourne End-Wycombe currently? That's usually an indicator of demand.

Every 30 minutes, with one of those extending to/from Maidenhead.  There's also a similar frequency on the Wycombe-Slough route.  There undoubtedly is quite a lot of demand (my experiences of the A404 aren't great!), but not enough to justify the quite large cost I would imagine - several housing estates and business parks on the old route and a challenging terrain both in gradient and housing density to try and work out a new alignment.

[4064ReadingAbbey]

Red Squirrel makes the most significant point. Reinstatement of Cheltenham to Kingham extends the current East-West plans. Bring it on.

And why stop at Cheltenham? I would suggest that the trains should originate and terminate at Cardiff. At the moment the huge, vaguely triangular swath of country with its apex at Bristol out to the North Sea coast between Norfolk and Lincolnshire (i.e., between the South Wales to London and South Wales to Birmingham lines) is not easily accessible by rail for people living in Bristol and points west.

I'm sure a convincing business case can be constructed, the population in this triangle is not insignificant...

[Cheltenham Kingham Rail]

Currently the only way east from Cheltenham and Gloucester - there's even a choice - involves going either via Worcester (a 25-mile diversion) or via Swindon and Didcot.
However I think the point of this campaign is that it'd be a lot quicker to be able to go via Andoversford and Bourton :-)

The Cheltenham-Kingham line could however be viewed as a logical extension of the East-West route, currently being revived.

And why stop at Cheltenham?
I would suggest that the trains should originate and terminate at Cardiff.
At the moment the huge, vaguely triangular swath of country with its apex at Bristol out to the North Sea coast between Norfolk and Lincolnshire (i.e., between the South Wales to London and South Wales to Birmingham lines) is not easily accessible by rail for people living in Bristol and points west.

I'm sure a convincing business case can be constructed, the population in this triangle is not insignificant...

There is also potential for a new east-west freight route along this line, especially if the chord at Yarnton was rebuilt (though this would be expensive due to the need to cross the Oxford Western Bypass).  Looking at the map, this would also involve crossing the A44 at Peartree (formerly a level crossing), where there is now a large roundabout before the former track bed forms part of the A4260 dual carriageway to Kidlington.  Finally, there is the A34 dual carriageway.  Add to this the fact that the embankment from Yarnton was removed many years ago. I think that it was used in the construction of Cumnor bypass a few miles away.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I note the comments that have been made above, by various contributors.

The good news is that the reinstatement can be done by deviating the route South of Cheltenham and at Bourton on the Water with only a handful of buildings having to be demolished.
This would avoid disruption and bring the cost down.

Deviated railway South of Cheltenham
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=339271092871536&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898403.&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=340125222786123&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898462.&type=3&theater

Deviated railway West of Bourton on the Water
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=312283648903614&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898660.&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=295147507283895&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898855.&type=3&theater

There is space beside A40 road for a railway at Andoversford, because the A40 road only follows the M&SWJR trackbed for a short distance South of Old Gloucester Road.

Railway at Andoversford
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=283967861735193&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898641.&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=324736567658322&set=pb.262628167202496.-2207520000.1396898618.&type=3&theater

[Electric train]

Cheltenham Kingham Rail is spamming the site to further their own ends, not seen a intro post to explain who they are its obvious what they want ............. free advertising.

I do welcome groups / individuals who want to build / re-open railways, a hello we are would be nice

[Btline]

Look, I'm sorry but this proposal is a non starter.

If we had a limitless pot of money it would be nice, but there are hundreds of more worthwhile infrastructure projects (including ROADS) that are further up the queue.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, but I think it needs saying.

Why not concentrate on more realistic targets such as electrificatino and 125 mph upgrade of the Bham to Bristol line? You could cut the Cheltenham to Bham journey time to about 30 minutes.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

BTLine has hit the nail right on the head. We keep hearing about hundreds of ideas for re-opening old rail lines. Most would never get pass the value for money assessment and apart from the costs of reinstatement of such lines, would require massive public subsidy to keep them operating which is just not available within the current financial provisions.

[ChrisB]

totally agree. cf BML2 in Sussex - tunnel through South London to Canary Wharf? Yeah, right.

[Red Squirrel]

totally agree. cf BML2 in Sussex - tunnel through South London to Canary Wharf? Yeah, right.

Yeah, pah! Next thing someone will suggest spending ^16BN on a tunnel from Paddington to Abbey Wood! Dream on..!

[ChrisB]

it'll carry far more pax than BML2 which'll cost more....

[Red Squirrel]

it'll carry far more pax than BML2 which'll cost more....

The BML2 campaign estimate ^315M for the Sussex phase, including Ashcombe Tunnel. Maybe the true cost would be three times that figure.

I can't find cost estimates for the London phase (do you have them?), but isn't that kind of tied up with Crossrail 3?

[ChrisB]

I've seen no mention of CRossrail3 on the BML2 website....does Crossrail3 even exist as more than a bright idea yet?

Agreed about the cost estimate being atrociously wrong....they don't seem keen on getting the Grip reports done (even to level 3!)

[Red Squirrel]

I've seen no mention of CRossrail3 on the BML2 website....does Crossrail3 even exist as more than a bright idea yet?

Agreed about the cost estimate being atrociously wrong....they don't seem keen on getting the Grip reports done (even to level 3!)

Crossrail 3 is referred to in passing here, near the foot of the page. I think it is fair to say that it is more of a concept than a plan, but it seems to cover similar ground to the 'London phase' of BML2.

If you weren't factoring in the London phase, then I'm a bit confused as to why you say that BML2 would cost more than Crossrail.

[ChrisB]

I was....

I meant that BML2 make no tie-up with Crossrail3, which you think they would do to bring down the cost of their pet project....

The London section stands no chance in our lifetime, methinks - and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) advisor is right, the number of pax in Canary Wharf is a small % of those working in Central London, and thus the cost benefit won't get to the heights required to get built....

[Btline]

BML2 is further up the queue than Chelt to Kingham, but it's got a flaw. The big problem with BML2 is that it doesn't serve the West End and City.
Changing at Canary Wharf/Stratford to Crossrail/Jubilee/Central line doesn't cut it - those lines are/will be full.

What's needed in South London is either a Crossrail style tunnel to take stoppers off the main lines, giving a 4 fast tracks to London, or a set of express tunnels from London Bridge to Purley.

Of course, that's DECADES away as Crossrail 2 is next (and it's debatable if we can afford it at the same time as HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s))!)