FGW Guards To Be Balloted By RMT For Action Over Managers Working Trains?

[whole diary]

[vacman]

It aint going to happen though! As for Thatcher then she's to blame for the last 20 years worth of crap that the railway has become, "roads before railways" spring to mind? well her under investment shafted the railways when they needed it most!

[Tickets Please]

indeed but its my union that have secured me a decent payrise of %5.6 this year, its my union the fight for my conditions and terms of service. its my union that have got me a 35 hr week from a 37.5 hr week with no loss of salary. its my union that ensure that everyone in the workplace is treated fairly.

so whats your problem with trade unions?

[Shazz]

Theres nothing wrong with the unions, stop bad mouthing them. Just because you don't get a train service once every few years doesnt mean that staff dont have rights as well!

[vacman]

I agree! We got 5.6% this year and inflation+1% next year! Thanks to the union it looks like we may actually get harmonisation for all grades!

[Mookiemoo]

indeed but its my union that have secured me a decent payrise of %5.6 this year, its my union the fight for my conditions and terms of service. its my union that have got me a 35 hr week from a 37.5 hr week with no loss of salary. its my union that ensure that everyone in the workplace is treated fairly.

so whats your problem with trade unions?

Striking

I'm of the opinion - if you dont like the conditions - go find another job

[Mookiemoo]

I'm going to back out of this because I don't think we'll ever agree.

I dont like unionisation - stand up for yourself - if you are good enough you'll do fine - if you're not, you need to realise you arent.

If the pay isnt good enough - go find a better paid job - someone will always work for the money you are getting - and if you can't, dont complain about what you have

Unions are only there to support the weak willed and spineless who cant or wont stand up for themselves - great - if thats a society you want I'll leave it to you.

[Shazz]

indeed but its my union that have secured me a decent payrise of %5.6 this year, its my union the fight for my conditions and terms of service. its my union that have got me a 35 hr week from a 37.5 hr week with no loss of salary. its my union that ensure that everyone in the workplace is treated fairly.

so whats your problem with trade unions?

Striking

I'm of the opinion - if you dont like the conditions - go find another job

So you sit in your nice office job on probably over 30k a year, and get nice pay rises. And complain about a few extra quid a year to be put on ticket prices so drivers can get better pay!?

You need to get your priorites right. Unions are fine for the railways, (and infact every other industry that uses them) It's just the complaining commuters who cant be bothered to pay a few quid a year (That 75% of them can easily afford) that could be used on extra pay for drivers and guards to improve the quality of living for them. So at the end of the day it could be said that its the commuters fault for train crew having to strike to get a few extra pence an hour...

Brings it all back to the "Them and us" way of thinking...

And life isnt as simple so you can just change jobs when you want to. Maybe you should try it one of these days? I know several highly skilled people who've done this recently, and taken at least 6 months to get into a new job.

[gaf71]

I'm going to back out of this because I don't think we'll ever agree.

I dont like unionisation - stand up for yourself - if you are good enough you'll do fine - if you're not, you need to realise you arent.

If the pay isnt good enough - go find a better paid job - someone will always work for the money you are getting - and if you can't, dont complain about what you have

Unions are only there to support the weak willed and spineless who cant or wont stand up for themselves - great - if thats a society you want I'll leave it to you.

There are many people working in many industries, that without the help from their respective trade unions, would either be out of a job, on a lot less pay, or working longer hours. Now wether or not you agree with unions is up to your personal point of view, but please don't call me weak or spineless for being part of something that protects MY interests and thousands if not millions of others. If you are in a job or a financial position not to need this protection then good luck to you, but please realise that there are many, many more who are not. I would also like to add that i am not in any way political, as that is often the misconception about people who are members of a union. I am only a member of my union to protect my interests, as this is the best way available to ME to get greater benefits for myself and my family.

I will now back quietly away from this subject as it is making me angry.

[Mookiemoo]

indeed but its my union that have secured me a decent payrise of %5.6 this year, its my union the fight for my conditions and terms of service. its my union that have got me a 35 hr week from a 37.5 hr week with no loss of salary. its my union that ensure that everyone in the workplace is treated fairly.

so whats your problem with trade unions?

Striking

I'm of the opinion - if you dont like the conditions - go find another job

So you sit in your nice office job on probably over 30k a year, and get nice pay rises. And complain about a few extra quid a year to be put on ticket prices so drivers can get better pay!?

You need to get your priorites right. Unions are fine for the railways, (and infact every other industry that uses them) It's just the complaining commuters who cant be bothered to pay a few quid a year (That 75% of them can easily afford) that could be used on extra pay for drivers and guards to improve the quality of living for them. So at the end of the day it could be said that its the commuters fault for train crew having to strike to get a few extra pence an hour...

Brings it all back to the "Them and us" way of thinking...

And life isnt as simple so you can just change jobs when you want to. Maybe you should try it one of these days? I know several highly skilled people who've done this recently, and taken at least 6 months to get into a new job.

No -I'm self employed

I dont work I dont get paid - no holiday, no pension, no sick pay

OK - I get paid a good day rate - but the indians under cut it whenever they can

I constantly have to re-skill just to stay in work

[gaf71]

indeed but its my union that have secured me a decent payrise of %5.6 this year, its my union the fight for my conditions and terms of service. its my union that have got me a 35 hr week from a 37.5 hr week with no loss of salary. its my union that ensure that everyone in the workplace is treated fairly.

so whats your problem with trade unions?

Striking

I'm of the opinion - if you dont like the conditions - go find another job

So you sit in your nice office job on probably over 30k a year, and get nice pay rises. And complain about a few extra quid a year to be put on ticket prices so drivers can get better pay!?

You need to get your priorites right. Unions are fine for the railways, (and infact every other industry that uses them) It's just the complaining commuters who cant be bothered to pay a few quid a year (That 75% of them can easily afford) that could be used on extra pay for drivers and guards to improve the quality of living for them. So at the end of the day it could be said that its the commuters fault for train crew having to strike to get a few extra pence an hour...

Brings it all back to the "Them and us" way of thinking...

And life isnt as simple so you can just change jobs when you want to. Maybe you should try it one of these days? I know several highly skilled people who've done this recently, and taken at least 6 months to get into a new job.

p.s. well said Shazz

[Mookiemoo]

indeed but its my union that have secured me a decent payrise of %5.6 this year, its my union the fight for my conditions and terms of service. its my union that have got me a 35 hr week from a 37.5 hr week with no loss of salary. its my union that ensure that everyone in the workplace is treated fairly.

so whats your problem with trade unions?

Striking

I'm of the opinion - if you dont like the conditions - go find another job

So you sit in your nice office job on probably over 30k a year, and get nice pay rises. And complain about a few extra quid a year to be put on ticket prices so drivers can get better pay!?

You need to get your priorites right. Unions are fine for the railways, (and infact every other industry that uses them) It's just the complaining commuters who cant be bothered to pay a few quid a year (That 75% of them can easily afford) that could be used on extra pay for drivers and guards to improve the quality of living for them. So at the end of the day it could be said that its the commuters fault for train crew having to strike to get a few extra pence an hour...

Brings it all back to the "Them and us" way of thinking...

And life isnt as simple so you can just change jobs when you want to. Maybe you should try it one of these days? I know several highly skilled people who've done this recently, and taken at least 6 months to get into a new job.

No -I'm self employed

I dont work I dont get paid - no holiday, no pension, no sick pay

OK - I get paid a good day rate - but the indians under cut it whenever they can

I constantly have to re-skill just to stay in work

P.S. if my industry tried to unionise - we'd be out of work replaced by indians/chinese over night

[Mookiemoo]

indeed but its my union that have secured me a decent payrise of %5.6 this year, its my union the fight for my conditions and terms of service. its my union that have got me a 35 hr week from a 37.5 hr week with no loss of salary. its my union that ensure that everyone in the workplace is treated fairly.

so whats your problem with trade unions?

Striking

I'm of the opinion - if you dont like the conditions - go find another job

So you sit in your nice office job on probably over 30k a year, and get nice pay rises. And complain about a few extra quid a year to be put on ticket prices so drivers can get better pay!?

You need to get your priorites right. Unions are fine for the railways, (and infact every other industry that uses them) It's just the complaining commuters who cant be bothered to pay a few quid a year (That 75% of them can easily afford) that could be used on extra pay for drivers and guards to improve the quality of living for them. So at the end of the day it could be said that its the commuters fault for train crew having to strike to get a few extra pence an hour...

Brings it all back to the "Them and us" way of thinking...

And life isnt as simple so you can just change jobs when you want to. Maybe you should try it one of these days? I know several highly skilled people who've done this recently, and taken at least 6 months to get into a new job.

No -I'm self employed

I dont work I dont get paid - no holiday, no pension, no sick pay

OK - I get paid a good day rate - but the indians under cut it whenever they can

I constantly have to re-skill just to stay in work

P.S. if my industry tried to unionise - we'd be out of work replaced by indians/chinese over night

and P.P.S how many of you in your cushy guaranteed union protected jobs would commute 2.5 hour each way every day on Gods Worst Railway before even putting in a days work

I dont want to be unionised - I want to stand for what *I* can do and be paid for it - and if someone else cant - tough shit

[gaf71]

indeed but its my union that have secured me a decent payrise of %5.6 this year, its my union the fight for my conditions and terms of service. its my union that have got me a 35 hr week from a 37.5 hr week with no loss of salary. its my union that ensure that everyone in the workplace is treated fairly.

so whats your problem with trade unions?

Striking

I'm of the opinion - if you dont like the conditions - go find another job

So you sit in your nice office job on probably over 30k a year, and get nice pay rises. And complain about a few extra quid a year to be put on ticket prices so drivers can get better pay!?

You need to get your priorites right. Unions are fine for the railways, (and infact every other industry that uses them) It's just the complaining commuters who cant be bothered to pay a few quid a year (That 75% of them can easily afford) that could be used on extra pay for drivers and guards to improve the quality of living for them. So at the end of the day it could be said that its the commuters fault for train crew having to strike to get a few extra pence an hour...

Brings it all back to the "Them and us" way of thinking...

And life isnt as simple so you can just change jobs when you want to. Maybe you should try it one of these days? I know several highly skilled people who've done this recently, and taken at least 6 months to get into a new job.

No -I'm self employed

I dont work I dont get paid - no holiday, no pension, no sick pay

OK - I get paid a good day rate - but the indians under cut it whenever they can

I constantly have to re-skill just to stay in work

P.S. if my industry tried to unionise - we'd be out of work replaced by indians/chinese over night

and P.P.S how many of you in your cushy guaranteed union protected jobs would commute 2.5 hour each way every day on Gods Worst Railway before even putting in a days work

I dont want to be unionised - I want to stand for what *I* can do and be paid for it - and if someone else cant - tough shit

Sorry Mookiemoo, but if i am not a member of my union i have no protection at work. That is just the way it is. I would love to stand here and say 'If you don't do it my way, it ain't happening' but im just a very, very small cog in a big machine, who needs all the help he can get

[chilly]

Well mookiemoo you may think you live in the "real world", but i can assure you, the real world involves things outside your closeted view of Thatcherism.
In the real world Trade Unions, especially on the railways, but elsewhere too, still operate as the voice of the workers.
They still protect through collective bargaining, a concept obviously annoying to yourself, those workers rights.
I fully expect an anti union rant from yourself, but you must accept that many ordinary people dont share your view, and as many many times i have been told, by anti union people, if you dont like your job get another, if you dont like your job, in your "real world", get a job where you can join a union, where colleagues stand together, and fight for rights that benifit the workforce, i.e you.
You obviously dont know the ins and outs of this particular dispute, and probably couldnt care less? So if you want to debate in an adult fashion, please do, if not go and talk rubbish elsewhere, or is that too much to ask?
Good luck to the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) members, whatever they decide democratically!

[Shazz]

At the end of the day, Unions are a good thing. As without them low paid workers/ public sector employees (eg teachers) wouldnt have a say in there pay rises etc.

Plus its against the law not to publicise at least one union in every large workplace. (last it was last time i checked, which was a while back)

And i'd stop digging yourself further into the hole you seem to be making for yourself Mookiemoo

You need to take a step back and look at jobs on the whole. Jobs such as transport/retail/teaching/public sector/etc (which cant be replaced overnight, as you seem to think is possible...) all tend to be incredibly low paid jobs (there are some exceptions) for the work people actually do in them. Without the unions, these employees wouldnt even get a say in payrises and other areas of there jobs that are important to them. Such as overtime rates, hours worked per week, days off per year etc.

Because you're your own "boss". You get it easy compared to these people (in relation to pay, working conditions, etc) as you set them yourself. Just because you commute 2 1/2 hours on a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) train to get to work, it doesnt mean you should get treated any different compared to low paid, over worked FGW staff who run your train. ITS YOUR CHOICE TO COMMUTE, AND NO ONE ELSES. And if you dont like it, why not go along with your policy, and change jobs?