Coal, for use on steam hauled heritage railways - merged posts

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

A ground source installation is somewhat more complicated, requiring pipes to be buried underground. See here

Yes and it will normally require a more space than the average garden for the pipes.  More suited to a rural location than a town.  Unless you want to go for a borehole in which case it is even more complicated. 

Thank you both - interesting reading material. Definitely rural, and a borehole will be in place for water. That means that some drilling kit will be in situ, which could cut the cost a fair bit. The installation within the house will be the same, so I think I will look at the difference in cost versus difference in running costs. My role does not extend to decision making, but such information as is around tends to be either too generic or aimed at a particular answer.

[broadgage]

The advantage of substantial thermal mass and extreme insulation, is that there is very little to go wrong.
Heat pumps are expensive to buy, may need costly repairs and consume significant electricity.

An extremely well insulated home will need NO heating in average winter weather, and only a little heating in severe weather.

MVHR adds complexity, but not as bad as a heat pump, and reduces energy use still further.


A super insulated home is immune to SHORT power cuts, it should remain comfortable for a few hours, and tolerable for up to 24 hours.
I therefore recommend a small solid fuel stove in case of any prolonged power outage. This should see very little use and is not the main heat source. It could however save your life if the power goes out for a week or more in a severe winter.

For similar reasons I would recommend  a small battery charging PV system, not worthwhile in strict financial terms, but could be most important in an emergency. A single 300 watt PV module and a couple of 12 volt deep cycle batteries would serve. That would provide for limited essential lighting, and low power portable electronics in an emergency.

[broadgage]

The "ban" on retail sales of house coal is now in effect with little effect. The ban only applies to "pre-packed" house coal and is generally evaded by sales in open bags rather than in sealed bags.
Most petrol stations and super markets cant cope with open bags so that has reduced sales a bit. Open bags are available for delivery or collection from most coal merchants.

The other loophole is that there is no prohibition on bulk sales, this exemption is intended for industrial use, including steam railways and other heritage uses. This is being misused by community groups buying a ton or two of loose house coal for use by individual households, all done to "protect the poorest households against the LATEST government scam to extract EVEN MORE money from them"

Traveler gangs are also selling house coal, bagged or otherwise, door to door. Generally of poor quality and of less than the claimed weight. This coal is often stolen shortly after delivery.

[Bmblbzzz]

The other loophole is that there is no prohibition on bulk sales, this exemption is intended for industrial use, including steam railways and other heritage uses. This is being misused by community groups buying a ton or two of loose house coal for use by individual households, all done to "protect the poorest households against the LATEST government scam to extract EVEN MORE money from them"

How much counts as bulk and how much would a coal-burning household expect to use each winter? My Polish in-laws would generally get through at least 2 tonnes a winter, but obviously winters are longer and colder there.

[broadgage]

I am not aware of any exact minimum weight of delivery to be counted as "bulk" most coal merchants consider two tons or more as bulk, some will take orders for one ton.

For routine winter use to heat one room with a fire or stove, and partially warming nearby rooms by natural air circulation, I would expect about one ton per winter.

For whole house heating about twice that.

For a solid fuel AGA or Rayburn that heats bath water, cooks meals, and heats the house via radiators, several tons a winter.

House coal should not be used in closed domestic appliances due to the risk of explosions. It is for open fires, and large industrial boilers, including locomotives, under skilled control and with a good induced or forced draught.

[paul7575]

Traveler gangs are also selling house coal, bagged or otherwise, door to door. Generally of poor quality and of less than the claimed weight. This coal is often stolen shortly after delivery.

I wonder if that counts as recycling nowadays… 

[TonyK]

I sold my place with the open fire last March. I still see plenty of the big orange lorries used by my previous supplier, so I guess they are still trading. Their website is a little tight-lipped, so I looked elsewhere, and found:

The House Coal can be tipped into a suitable coal bunker or store and the empty bags taken away for recycling.
Alternatively the House Coal can remain in the bags. However, please note, that the bags will be cut open before our delivery partner leaves your premises, in order to comply with the new legislation.

So, not only are we saving the planet by these new regulations, we have also generated growth in the craft knife sector.

[broadgage]

The ban on housecoal is not to save the planet. The carbon emissions from use of permitted anthracite and from "prohibited" house coal are about the same per unit of heat.

The purpose of the ban is to improve local air quality by reducing smoke and fine particulate emissions.

[TonyK]

The ban on housecoal is not to save the planet. The carbon emissions from use of permitted anthracite and from "prohibited" house coal are about the same per unit of heat.

The purpose of the ban is to improve local air quality by reducing smoke and fine particulate emissions.

My mistake. Never easy to tell which box is being ticked these days. Good to hear that local air quality is being improve by this bag slitting. I wonder why no-one thought of it before?

[broadgage]

The ban on housecoal is becoming less effective by the day.
"bulk" is now defined not as a ton or more, but as meaning "not pre packed" So a single bag is fine provided that this is opened and therefore not prepacked.

Most coal merchants have a minimum delivery volume of 10 bags, or one quarter of a ton, but that is simple economics and applies also to permitted patent fuels and anthracite.

Most supermarkets and petrol filling stations cant cope with open bags so that has SLIGHTLY restricted sales. Around here a community group is organising deliveries of ten open bags to one address for local distribution to other residents in order to evade the ban, which is ANOTHER imposition on the poor, who apparently all heat with open coal fires.

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm sure it was given earlier, but of all coal consumed in UK^▸ (United Kingdom), how much is used domestically? How much used by heritage rail?

[grahame]

Follow up ... issues with forum posting ... here's what I recovered:

In 2019 (tonnes):

Industry:    1425932
Railways:   15000
Electricity:  2906094
Domestic   491776
Miscellaneous: 30677
Coke ovens & solid fuels: 3093591

Source

[Bmblbzzz]

Thanks. I'm surprised by how large a proportion domestic use is.

[Oxonhutch]

Thanks Graham for recovering that. The chart in part 4 of the source linked above is also very illustrative.

[anthony215]

On BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Wales news one mine in Glyneath South wales been given a new licence to dig coal to supply port Talbot steel works