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Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 5456
There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2013, 18:16:46 » |
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I thought we had huge reserves ...
So did Derek Ezra in 1974. "Built on coal", this country, he said; "enough to last for 300 years". And there probably is, especially if we don't dig it up. Part of the problem is that it has to be the right kind of coal. I think the West Somerset has been getting its steam coal from mines east of Margate for some time; Great Western engines don't much care for lignite... |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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JayMac
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 04:41:45 » |
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I think it was Colonel Stephens. Not sure steam locos were ever able to run on Kentucky Fried Chicken.    |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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Western Enterprise
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 11:07:39 » |
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Part of the problem is that it has to be the right kind of coal. I think the West Somerset has been getting its steam coal from mines east of Margate for some time; Great Western engines don't much care for lignite...
[/quote]
I remember asking the question when firing a 5MT on the Watercress line a year or two back. They use a mixture of Polish, South African and somewhere else coal.
As for GW▸ engines, only the finest coal from South Wales would do, but now is more likely to be New South Wales?
On the plus side, my local handy store has 20kg packets of smalls for ^7.50 odd. Perhaps I could donate some?
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devon_metro
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 21:05:25 » |
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I thought we had huge reserves ...
We have plenty of coal, it's juat often not very easy/economical to extract! |
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2013, 21:57:29 » |
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There's certainly an issue with the "wrong type" of coal: a heritage railway with which I am very closely acquainted has bought three batches of coal from the relatively recently re-opened open cast mine in south Wales. The first couple of batches were fine, but the most recent burns very hot, to the extent that locomotives have been chewing through fire bars very rapidly: replacing these is a routine job, but at over GBP 10 a pop the costs of materials mounts very rapidly, not to mention the cost of labour in making the repairs. The result is that we've ordered alternative coal in from Russia and will use that to "dilute" the Welsh batch.
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Clan Line
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2020, 12:47:10 » |
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There was an article on the BBC» website yesterday wondering for how much longer the UK▸ would need to import coal, following the news that Britain has not burnt any coal in its power stations for 2 months.
If we do not need to import coal for power stations any more, will it be economically viable to import it for heritage steam locomotive use ? Would it be possible to burn wood in our steam locos, or is this too much of a spark hazard ? Oil would be one solution but how long before that is no longer needed ? Could our steam railways (and any other coal users) support a small UK based coal mine ?
Any thoughts ?
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ellendune
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2020, 13:11:55 » |
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There will still be a need for a small amount of coal to make coke for steelmaking so I do not imagine that supplies will dry up.
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didcotdean
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2020, 14:22:14 » |
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There is also the new (and controversial) coal mine being developed near Whitehaven, although all the output is destined to become coke for steel.
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stuving
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2020, 14:25:54 » |
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If you need real working heritage coal for your real working heritage steam engine, shouldn't it come from a real working heritage coal mine?
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broadgage
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2020, 16:25:57 » |
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There will always be a need for some coal, whether imported or produced domestically, for iron and steel manufacture.
It should be simple to use a little for heritage railways.
There is also a modest but ongoing demand for coal for domestic heating and cooking. The domestic use of traditional housecoal has been/is about to be banned, but anthracite and coal derived patent fuels are still permitted. It should be simple to use a little of this coal for heritage railways.
Also coal burning for electric power production is unlikely to permanently end just yet. It is expected to resume in the winter, and for the next few winters. It should be simple to divert a little of this power station coal for heritage railway use.
Electricity from coal is declining rapidly but is most unlikely to become totally extinct just yet.
Farriers and blacksmiths will also need coal in modest volumes for the foreseeable future, supply to heritage railways could be combined with supplying this market.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2020, 16:34:39 » |
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Will a shrinking market mean increased costs though?
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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broadgage
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2020, 21:13:52 » |
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Yes, I expect costs to rise as coal demand falls.
Not by that much though, imports of a few thousand tons a year should not cost much more per ton than importing millions of tons.
If just 100,000 households burn coal, and each one uses on average a ton a year, that is 100,000 tons a year.
Add to that the demand for iron and steel production, and other uses.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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Witham Bobby
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2020, 14:45:50 » |
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Not all coal is suitable for steam locomotive fireboxes. Different classes of locos need different coals, too. Locos of The Great Western Railway were designed to work with the anthracite coal of the Welsh collieries. I've had experience of firing the small shallow grates on GW▸ locos with the proper stuff, and with substitute material from Yorkshire, Scotland and Russia. lets just say the job works well with the designed-for fuel, and leave it there.
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