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Author Topic: Coal, for use on steam hauled heritage railways - merged posts  (Read 57297 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #150 on: January 26, 2022, 21:04:35 »

On BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Wales nmade from coal.ews one mine in Glyneath South wales been given a new licence to dig coal to supply port Talbot steel works

I am glad to hear of this, which may surprise some people in view of my well known concerns about climate change and fossil fuel usage.

There is no readily available* way to produce iron and steel without* coke made from coal.
Iron and steel are essential materials for a modern society, or indeed even for a Victorian society. Steel is used to build railways, ships, modern buildings, bridges, and almost all modern machinery. In the event of war, iron and steel are vital for the manufacture of weapons.

I see no merit in importing coal or steel works coke , nor in importing ready made iron and steel., probably from china.
China has an appalling record on human rights, and on the environment. I see no merit in becoming reliant in imports of such strategic materials.
Retaining iron and steel manufacture within the UK (United Kingdom), including the supply of fuel used in this manufacture is in my view a matter of national security.

* Iron and steel CAN be made by the use of charcoal, obtained from trees, this was done centuries ago, but is completely unsuitable for large scale manufacture. I have heard, but can not substantiate, that one thousand tons of trees are needed to make one ton of iron.

Iron and steel can also be made in a furnace fueled by hydrogen and oxygen, these gases can be obtained from water by renewably generated electricity. This process shows some promise for the future, but wont help for this years and next years iron and steel requirements. A little coke or perhaps charcoal is still needed, but very little.

The need for new iron and steel can be reduced by recycling of already existing and now redundant material, but some new manufacture will still be needed.

So reluctantly I support UK coal mining for strategically important purposes, but NOT for general use.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
patch38
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« Reply #151 on: March 13, 2022, 15:06:50 »

Quote
Llangollen Railway may have to cut services as it stops buying Russian coal:

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/mid-wales/2022/03/12/railway-to-shun-russian-coal/
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broadgage
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« Reply #152 on: March 13, 2022, 17:45:27 »

Quote
Llangollen Railway may have to cut services as it stops buying Russian coal:

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/mid-wales/2022/03/12/railway-to-shun-russian-coal/

Seems an over reaction to me.
I am in favour of boycotting Russian coal and other goods, but believe that the railway should be able to obtain non Russian supplies.
Anthracite is not the ideal fuel for locomotives but can be used, it is produced in Wales. It has a good calorific vale and produces little smoke, but may need generous use of the blower to urge the fire.
Housecoal can be obtained from Colombia, most coal merchants have stocks.
Various patent fuels are available, including the ovoids mentioned in the report.
"Eco coal" is available from many suppliers, it is only somewhat eco but better than real coal. It is made partly from olive stones, an unavoidable by product of the olive oil industry.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
infoman
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« Reply #153 on: April 17, 2022, 17:48:27 »

item on Sky news that the conflict in Ukraine has seen coals supplys dry up.

Think it should be shown again,although it MIGHT be on the play again option,

I saw the item on Sunday afternoon at 17:40pm ish

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ChrisB
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« Reply #154 on: April 17, 2022, 20:40:03 »

Been all over the rail online heritage rail sites for a week or so now. Looking to Australia to siurce the right calorific value coal now
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MVR S&T
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« Reply #155 on: April 17, 2022, 21:01:53 »

Yes we are using a glued together mix of coal dust and olive stones!
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grahame
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« Reply #156 on: April 17, 2022, 21:58:52 »

I saw the piece repeated on Sky News within the last hour.   Saying by one bloke "if this is not solved, [some] heritage railways will have to close".  How many heritage railways are there without alternative diesel traction?  Is it time to electrify some more heritage railways?
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broadgage
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« Reply #157 on: April 18, 2022, 03:45:37 »

I saw the piece repeated on Sky News within the last hour.   Saying by one bloke "if this is not solved, [some] heritage railways will have to close".  How many heritage railways are there without alternative diesel traction?  Is it time to electrify some more heritage railways?

Almost all heritage railways have some diesel traction, but most of the visitors to such railways expect steam. If the diesel traction is something old, interesting, or unusual, then some enthusiasts will prefer this and may travel specially to experience same, but most visitors expect steam.

I have previously suggested that the larger heritage lines should consider battery locomotives for ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) moves and engineering trains, and as the first reserve in case of failures.
A battery multiple unit is worth considering for any local commuter trains that may be offered outside of the steam season.

I have also suggested that electric heaters be fitted to steam locomotives for warming up before the days work.

Returning to coal, I am not aware of any general coal shortage. I have promotional material inviting me to stock up before next winter which does not imply any shortage.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #158 on: April 18, 2022, 03:47:18 »

Suggest merging this thread with the "end of coal" thread.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #159 on: April 18, 2022, 06:00:13 »

Suggest merging this thread with the "end of coal" thread.

Makes sense. Done.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #160 on: April 18, 2022, 08:02:03 »

There would be a lot fewer supporters/users of heritage rail should it all go diesel/electric such that many won’t raise sufficient funds to continue. That was what I understand
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broadgage
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« Reply #161 on: April 18, 2022, 09:21:23 »

The website of a local coal merchants lists a wide variety of coal and smokeless fuels, at about the usual prices.
The only product out of stock is Colombian house coal trebles. Doubles are available.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ChrisB
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« Reply #162 on: April 18, 2022, 09:52:47 »

The calorific value of coal for heritage steam needs to be really high, and since the demise of the uk coal mines, has been sourced from Russia. Obviously now unavailable, the worldwide hunt is now on as other current supplies don’tburn hot enough
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #163 on: April 18, 2022, 10:12:45 »

Do the heritage steam groups actively practice carbon offsetting in respect of the coal they burn?
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TonyK
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« Reply #164 on: April 18, 2022, 11:11:34 »

Do the heritage steam groups actively practice carbon offsetting in respect of the coal they burn?

I wouldn't have thought they have the money to splurge on greenwashing, or to buy indulgences, as broadgage calls it.
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