Electrification beyond Newbury - study results

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

An interesting comment on that particular press article has been posted on their website, too ... 

[JayMac]

An interesting comment on that particular press article has been posted on their website, too ... 

Interesting picture that the Wiltshire Times have used to illustrate the article as well. From April 2009 when the fire brigade were called to Westbury station for a small fire on a West Coast Railways Class 47 hauling a railtour. 

Perhaps they are subliminally suggesting that this sort of thing won't happen with electric traction. 

[eightf48544]

If we had a proper rolling electrification programme this wouldn't even be up for debate, first Newbury Bath (including Melksham line). Bristol Plymouth. Westbury Exeter.

Ideally the Melksham Bath should be done in the first phase with the reinstatement of  Bradford North Curve to allow work on the mainline.

Basingstoke Exeter and Southampton Salisbury Westbury follow on as night follows day. Especialy as Basingstoke and Southampton are planned to have 25Kv so makes the boundaries easy.

The trouble is we don't have the vision. We are all like Oscar Wilde's cynic, we know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Remember growth follows the wires!

[paul7575]

If we had a proper rolling electrification programme this wouldn't even be up for debate, first Newbury Bath (including Melksham line). Bristol Plymouth. Westbury Exeter.

Ideally the Melksham Bath should be done in the first phase with the reinstatement of  Bradford North Curve to allow work on the mainline.

Basingstoke Exeter and Southampton Salisbury Westbury follow on as night follows day. Especialy as Basingstoke and Southampton are planned to have 25Kv so makes the boundaries easy.

The trouble is we don't have the vision. We are all like Oscar Wilde's cynic, we know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Remember growth follows the wires!

However, AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) no-one has ever defined 'rolling programme' to mean starting at one end of the GW^▸ (Great Western) and SW and filling in all the gaps (which were all listed in the Electrification RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) with their relative priorities). 

As I see things, what they intend is a national rolling programme meaning that they will move onto the next priority job (to keep the same steady state wiring teams and trains working) and that is the Midland mainline (MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about)).  After the MML the next priority might be the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) route from Bristol to Derby.

So looked at nationally - maybe there is both vision and the nucleus of a 'rolling programme'.

Paul

[Kernow Otter]

Anyone care to place bets on when the wires will reach Penzance....

[ChrisB]

never

[eightf48544]

As the wires spread around the country the use of bimode trains will become increasing absurb as large lumps of metal are carted for miles under the wires. Plus the ever aging DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) fleet which no-one will want to replace because of the of the wires the 170s will be getting on in 2030.

So we will either revert to loco haulage with a change of traction at Plymouth or the wires will spread, however I don't think I'll see the wires to Penzance maybe Plymouth.

[Electric train]

As the wires spread around the country the use of bimode trains will become increasing absurb as large lumps of metal are carted for miles under the wires. Plus the ever aging DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) fleet which no-one will want to replace because of the of the wires the 170s will be getting on in 2030.

The electric IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s that Hitachi are building have diesel generator sets, they are there to provide power to the hotel services in the event the 25kV is lost, also the generator is capable of moving the train at 30mph.  The mass of a generator is less than that of the batteries required to keep the hotel services running for 3 hours, batteries are hideous  environmentally and to maintain more so than a diesel gen set

So we will either revert to loco haulage with a change of traction at Plymouth or the wires will spread, however I don't think I'll see the wires to Penzance maybe Plymouth.

I think Exeter more than Plymouth the sea wall at Dawlish is still an obstetrical to 25kV not insurmountable just very very expensive

[Kernow Otter]

The electric IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s that Hitachi are building have diesel generator sets, they are there to provide power to the hotel services in the event the 25kV is lost, also the generator is capable of moving the train at 30mph.  The mass of a generator is less than that of the batteries required to keep the hotel services running for 3 hours, batteries are hideous  environmentally and to maintain more so than a diesel gen set

30 mph? hell are we to get fast trains as well then !

[Electric train]

The electric IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s that Hitachi are building have diesel generator sets, they are there to provide power to the hotel services in the event the 25kV is lost, also the generator is capable of moving the train at 30mph.  The mass of a generator is less than that of the batteries required to keep the hotel services running for 3 hours, batteries are hideous  environmentally and to maintain more so than a diesel gen set

30 mph? hell are we to get fast trains as well then !

Yep ....... the bi-mode are 117 mph!!!!

[grahame]

Local reaction from "This is Wiltshire" ...

http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/10498291._/?

[Electric train]

Cannot see why they fear for their services the electrification to Bedwyn is so the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) does not have to retain any more 165/6 than is necessary

[stebbo]

Personally, I think this debate is extraordinary. As I've said before (on other posts) I honestly believe that the government should forget the new HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) link to the north and get on with expanding the electrification on the existing routes to the SW, Bristol to Birmingham, Hereford to Birmingham and Birmingham to Nottingham.

[onthecushions]

The station entrance and exits figures for 2011/12 are (rounded):

Hungerford   278k
Bedwyn       107k
Pewsey        208k
Westbury     425K

It does look odd that wiring beyond Hungerford to Bedwyn is viable but to Pewsey is not.

It's about 30 route miles on from Pewsey to Westbury and a Parkway for Devizes would be a big plus.

Unless there is a big jump in costs going West from Bedwyn (such as an extra feeder station/GSP), it doesn't look very rational.

OTC

[grahame]

It does look odd that wiring beyond Hungerford to Bedwyn is viable but to Pewsey is not.

On 19 electric trains each way per day, electrification is justified Newbury to Bedwyn. On 20 electric trains each way Newbury to Bedwyn, with 1 or 2 of them per day extended to Westbury and calling at Pewsey, you cannot justify extension of electrification from Newbury to Westbury. That's what the study has shown.   Common sense really; if you electrify a railway line but continue to run diesel trains on most of it with very few exceptions, then you probably won't get a return on your investment.

You could get very different results if you looked at extending electrifcation from Newbury to Westbury and running an amended pattern of services. For example, extend the 19 local electric services to Westbury (extended from Bedwyn) and use Bimode IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) to the South West, switching power source at Westbury.