Franchise payments - how payments to DfT by FGW may effect your fare

[whole diary]

[smokey]

We should get more stock when 150/1s in the west mids are displaced by 172s.

I believe the right pieces of paper have already been signed for us to have the 150/1's.

I find it interesting that there is so much interest about getting class 150 units.
Built in early 1980s with a 20 year life, should have gone for scrap by now!
Mind you a 150 beats a 142 hands down.
However most francihses are getting NICE NEW STOCK, where's our NEW trains.

[vacman]

We should get more stock when 150/1s in the west mids are displaced by 172s.

I believe the right pieces of paper have already been signed for us to have the 150/1's.

I find it interesting that there is so much interest about getting class 150 units.
Built in early 1980s with a 20 year life, should have gone for scrap by now!
Mind you a 150 beats a 142 hands down.
However most francihses are getting NICE NEW STOCK, where's our NEW trains.

Thats a good idea, scrap perfectly good trains JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE^▸ (Religious Education) OLD! You don't half talk sh1t smokey.

[devon_metro]

Perhaps he works for the Department for Tarmac (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about))?

[Lee]

Perhaps he works for the Department for Tarmac (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about))?

Doubt it :

I wish somebody in the DfT would realise just how much damage they can do by changing Train Times.

There used to be an Early (06.30) Leicester-Peterborough service back in the 70's that loaded to about 15 from Leicester, 25 from Melton, 50 from Oakham and about 90 from Stamford.

However one year BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) in it's Wisdom withdrew the early train leaving the first service at 07.40.

However at the Next Time Table change it (the 06.30) was put back, on the first day the reinstated train ran May 76 or 77 how many passengers travel to Peterborough, 100?, sorry less, 75 then, again less, give up?

ONE! that's how many (ME), My very own Train Leicester-Peterborough, was packed from Peterborough on towards Harwich, ran in times of Train that started at Peterborough, ittook almost 2 years for passenger levels to climb back to the earllier train levels.
Okay changing Train Times around a Few Minutes doesn't have much effect, but Bu**** up services like this And Melksham and also NEWQUAY, it's FATAL or  WORSE PLANNED. Evil DfT?

[vacman]

Perhaps he works for the Department for Tarmac (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about))?

something like that.

[Timmer]

I find it interesting that there is so much interest about getting class 150 units.
Built in early 1980s with a 20 year life, should have gone for scrap by now!
Mind you a 150 beats a 142 hands down.
However most francihses are getting NICE NEW STOCK, where's our NEW trains.

Its not that we're getting exciting about getting more 'hand me down' stock whilst another franchise gets new stock, its just we are grateful for any additional rolling stock thats coming our way at the moment!

I think I'm right in saying that 150s are popular with some of the traincrew who post on this site. I don't mind them but prefer a 158 

New rolling stock doesn't always mean good rolling stock. Take XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) for example: Penzance-Edinburgh on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) or Voyager? Know which one I'd choose anyday!

FGW^▸ (First Great Western), GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) (NatEx EC) have shown just what you can do with 30 year rolling stock with the refurb of their HST fleets. They are good for another 10-15 years now with new interiors and engines in the power cars. Some passengers have even thought that they were brand new trains! Then you have Arriva XC bringing HSTs back to the XC network. I do hope they highlight in their timetables which services are being run by HSTs then I might start using XC services again rather than going via London 

Whoops, sorry going way off topic here so will make a comment about the original post.

We had all better get used to high fare increases every year from now on as someone has to pay the DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) their premium. Like I've said before think of it as a tax for deciding to use the train!

[smokey]

My comment about 150's is that they are already life expired!

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is I believe the ONLY franchise where Brand new stock isn't part of the deal!

Why is that then Vacman.

Me thinks you like old stock.

Bring back the old DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s

SUIT YOU SIR

[Timmer]

My comment about 150's is that they are already life expired!

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is I believe the ONLY franchise where Brand new stock isn't part of the deal!

Why is that then Vacman.

Me thinks you like old stock.

Bring back the old DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s

SUIT YOU SIR

Some pics of the interiors of the first refreshed FGW 150. Don't know about you but I think they look rather good:

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/News%20Nov%202007/051107-FGW.html

No new stock in the specification for East Midlands franchise...the 'Connect' part of the franchise i.e ex Central services.

They will have to join the queue like FGW and other operators in hoping to get some of the 1,300 carriages the government keeps saying are going to happen.

Just one small problem of course and thats the competition commision's inquiry into the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)'s leasing charges for ex-BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) stock. The tables have somewhat been turned on DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) for reporting the ROSCOS to the CC as they themselves are being investigated by the way they prescrib what stock is used and where which restricts what stock the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) can have.

Whilst all this goes on the overcrowding on our rail network gets worse as the ROSCOS aren't keen on investing in new rolling stock whilst they face a somewhat uncertain future regards what income they are going to get from rolling stock leases.

[devon_metro]

Its not a case of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) buying new stock...

The DafT specifies it wants some crap new underfloor engined trains (take Voyagers for example) and a ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) will own them, and lease them to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company).

FGW actually own some of their stock, which is a bonus.

[Lee]

No new stock in the specification for East Midlands franchise...the 'Connect' part of the franchise i.e ex Central services.

They will have to join the queue like FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and other operators in hoping to get some of the 1,300 carriages the government keeps saying are going to happen.

The link below details where the 1,300 carriages (assuming they get built) are likely to be deployed.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/about/strategy/whitepapers/whitepapercm7176/railwphlsospecimen

Regarding the FGW area, the London-Reading corridor is battling it out with services in the Southeastern, Southern, South West Trains, Chiltern, London Midland, FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect), One and c2c areas for a share of around 900 extra coaches.

Bristol is battling it out with Leicester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Nottingham and Sheffield for a share of around 50-80 carriages.

[vacman]

My comment about 150's is that they are already life expired!

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is I believe the ONLY franchise where Brand new stock isn't part of the deal!

Why is that then Vacman.

Me thinks you like old stock.

Bring back the old DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s

SUIT YOU SIR

East Midlands Trains = No new trains, Arriva Trains Wales = No new trains, "One" = No new trains, National Express East Coast = No new trains, Northern = No new trains, First Scotrail = No new trains and these are all companies that run ex BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) stock, OK "one" have a couple of 170's and ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) have some 175's which are relatively new, but you get the point??? oh, First Capital Connect aswell...

[grahame]

The link below details where the 1,300 carriages (assuming they get built) are likely to be deployed.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/about/strategy/whitepapers/whitepapercm7176/railwphlsospecimen

I see that they're using 2001 figures for the number of people who commute to work by train as the basis of their calculation.   I wonder what they've done to allow for differential growth in that calculation.  I'm concerned that a 0.8% compound figure based on 2002/2003 figures was used for the GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise calculation that (I think) got us into something of the current mess, with actual achieved figures that I'm familiar with (TransWilts, which may have shown stronger growth that the rest of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area) being between 10% compound and 35% compound.

Leeds with 13000 daily commuters by train in 2001 gets 60 - 90 extra carriages
Bristol with 4000 daily commuters by train in 2001 would get just 10 if the "others" pot is spread evenly.

[Conner]

1)East Midlands Trains = No new trains
2)Arriva Trains Wales = No new trains
3)First Scotrail = No new trains

1) East Midland Trains have newish Meridians of some lines.
2) As you said about the 175's and they made be getting 5 year old Adelantes.
3) At the start of the franchise 170 had recently been deployed.

[vacman]

1)East Midlands Trains = No new trains
2)Arriva Trains Wales = No new trains
3)First Scotrail = No new trains

1) East Midland Trains have newish Meridians of some lines.
2) As you said about the 175's and they made be getting 5 year old Adelantes.
3) At the start of the franchise 170 had recently been deployed.

Your right in what you say, but in direct answer to smokeys question then i'm right, new-ish isn't new trains!

[Conner]

1)East Midlands Trains = No new trains
2)Arriva Trains Wales = No new trains
3)First Scotrail = No new trains

1) East Midland Trains have newish Meridians of some lines.
2) As you said about the 175's and they made be getting 5 year old Adelantes.
3) At the start of the franchise 170 had recently been deployed.

Your right in what you say, but in direct answer to smokeys question then i'm right, new-ish isn't new trains!

I know you were write in the answer to the question but as they had newish trains they didnt need new ones hence there was no franchise commitment to.